Scrolling Game Development Kit Forum

SGDK Version 2 => Projects => Topic started by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-28, 05:45:26 AM

Title: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-28, 05:45:26 AM
OK, I don't think I'm going to be getting any more sleep this morning with this idea blooming in my head (or is it this bloomin' idea in my head?).  For lack of a name for this project, I am simply going to title this post "The Crowdsourced Game", but will likely proceed to use this thread long after the project has a name.  That will be one of the first things to decide on, though, and in the spirit of the project, I don't want to be the only one with input on the name of it.  Let's gather a few suggestions for names and then I can post a poll to see what names people like.  I don't think we have enough people to consider this crowd-sourcing yet, but it's in the same spirit at least.

As I said, this idea is blooming.  I had a couple thoughts this morning that really allowed the idea for this project to start to take shape.  For those who don't know what I'm talking about, I suppose I should begin with some background -- what is this idea?

The idea is, as the subject suggests, crowd-sourced game development.  Instead of placing the entire burden of developing a game on one developer or a small group of developers, I would like to run at least an experimental project to see what kind of success we might get out of a project that allows anybody to contribute to a game, and merge the best of everyone's contributions into a "super-game".  We have a crowd-sourced encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdsourcing), crowd-sourced genetic research in game form (http://phylo.cs.mcgill.ca/eng/play.html), crowd-sourced movie production (http://mashable.com/2012/01/21/star-wars-uncut-2/), crowd-sourced news (http://slashdot.org) and crowd-sourced general discussion of what's interesting (http://reddit.com), and there apparently even has been crowd-sourced game development (http://www.geekosystem.com/mojam-60-hour-game/) in the past, but, as far as I can tell, not in a form that continues to evolve and improve over an indefinite period. Little Big Planet (http://www.littlebigplanet.com/) is probably the closest thing I can think of to what I'm thinking about.  However, it has more restrictions than I imagine in "my" (or rather "our") experiment/project. The main restrictions I'd like to experiment with removing are:
1. Confinement of each user's content: I want a game where anybody can integrate their content anywhere into the game rather than dividing the game up into discrete units where each person only managed their own worlds.
2. Limiting the type of content contributed: I want a game where people can contribute their own fundamental content rather than being limited to just level design.  People should be able to contribute new and improved artwork and code affecting the fundamental behavior of the game.

Impossible? It sounds pretty far out, but I want to give it a try and see what happens.  And the idea that has been blooming in my head this morning has made this all start to seem much more realistic than I was previously imagining. The idea is that SourceForge (http://sourceforge.net) may already be designed for this sort of activity, if we use it right. Source control software is designed for merging code changes from different version levels and releases... perhaps it's possible we could use it to merge changes from different users.  It allows us to "label" code so you can retrieve a specific set of code despite what other code has been contributed on top of it... perhaps it's possible to use that to mark candidates for playing and review.  Scrolling Game Development Kit 2 can output all the graphics, code and level design to a single file (in HTML or SGDK2 format) while retaining the independence (as far as source control merging is concerned) of sprites, rules, map layers, plans, and many other aspects of a game that users may want to contribute.  Source control merges are line-based, and SGDK2 files (and HTML files) are currently designed to maintain separate sprites on separate lines.  So two users could add two different sprites to the same project, and, theoretically, have their changes merge together nicely.

As I think about it more, I think that the SGDK2 file format is almost the ideal form in which to maintain a crowd-sourced game, to which people of a wide range of skill levels can contribute equally.  User One user wants to update all the graphics; he or she can submit an edit in which the SGDK2 file's graphic sheets and framesets are all updated (so long as the ordering of the already-existing cells and frames are not affected).  User Two wants to add some new graphics; he or she can submit an edit which introduces new frames from a new graphic sheet into the same frameset, so that level designers have a larger palette to work with. User three wants to design a new level; building on the work of users one and/or two, or without the help of either, he or she can add new maps, and link them in by adding plans to existing maps to transport the player to and from the new maps.

Certainly there will be some changes that can't be merged.  Editing tiles within an existing map won't be merge-able with other changes to the same map (although a manual merge would be practical if the game is being checked in in HTML5 format where the map data is readily view-able and directly editable in a text editor).  Editing graphics within a graphic sheet likely won't merge well with other edits to the same graphic sheet.  But with the magic of  SGDK2 framesets, hopefully we/users can find a good way  to update individual tile and sprite graphics without editing existing graphic sheet images -- just add new graphic sheets and then replace the frameset frames using the new cells instead of directly editing the existing cells.

But it's not time yet to get too far into the details.  We need to begin by naming the project, exploring the forms of source control that are available that could support this, and formalizing the high-level plan. I think I should write a more formal description of this project that can entice new users to explore this idea with us, and help them understand what it is we're going to play around with here. As always, this document too will be subject to everyone's input. I want the most interesting-looking page I can have to make the first impression on a new potential user.  Then we can post that on the project's SourceForge web site homepage.  Or perhaps the homepage should be a wiki, further inviting improvements to the project at all levels.

I have a day job to get to work on today, but I do hope to get back to this soon, and start developing this idea if not developing any actual code. I have been slowly working on the CleanGame project to try to make it HTML5 compatible. I'm making some progress, and I do think (thanks user to #Sharp) that is a good place to start. When that project can be played in HTML5 form, then not only can anybody contribute to the project in SGDK2 format or HTML5 format, but anybody can pick up their own set of modifications by merging whatever set of changes they like, and post it wherever they like to play on a wide variety of platforms. Brought to you by Open Source :)... no pay-to-play HTML5 game editor is going to give you this.  Let the evolution begin... and proceed without restriction!
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-28, 05:58:48 AM
Now that I think about it, I was mainly thinking about SourceForge's source control piece (Subversion or Mercurial) when realizing how this project could proceed. I suppose any site that hosts a source control system could work just as well. SourceForge (Subversion/Mercurial) does not currently seem to support fine-grained permissions on the source control, but it is something under consideration. I should keep looking around to see what other source control is available. I imagine fine grained source control permissions will be necessary to help control the incorporation of "up-voted" code into "higher" branches.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-28, 06:52:23 AM
I've posted a question on StackOverflow (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9907723/source-control-system-to-branch-by-user-instead-of-version) to see if anyone can help by recommending a version/source control system to look into to support this.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-28, 02:36:49 PM
I'm not experienced in source control- but I'd like to leave this comment to say that I'm in on this. I'll start to participate whenever it shifts towards my skill set. :-)

You should really look this up. It was pretty popular on TigSource.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=22939
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-28, 03:56:42 PM
Do you have any ideas for a project name?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-28, 06:11:48 PM
I was extremely fond of the name you came up with.
 (It's on another thread, I'll find it in a moment)
In the good spirit of Democracy- I vote for that, or something that seems very Dreamlike.

But hey, how about even the best idea. Just name it, Creation.
It's easy to remember, right?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-29, 04:44:40 AM
On the one hand a common word is easy to remember. Other the other hand, it's easy to mix it up with other things using the same term. The benefit of an obscure or unique term is that it uniquely identifies the project. Then a web search, for example, won't be nearly as ambiguous about leading you to where you really want to go.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-29, 05:49:41 AM
I have a hard time coming up with a name.  I fond it easier to name a project with the content or the scenario of the game.  It's not easy to name a project when you have no idea how it's going to turn out...  "Creation" seems like a good name to me because it's short, easy to remember and could eventually turn out to represent not only the concept of the project but also the content of the game.  Maybe we could add another word to the title, a word not usually found near "creation" in a usual sentence, that way search engines would find the game right away.  Something like "Creation-X" where X would be other other word.  Now, what could this other word be...

Oh, by the way, I'm interested in this project. :)  I don't know how much time I have to invest in this, but I'd like to be a part of it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-29, 03:21:09 PM
When in doubt, resort to another language.

I vote the word Avis, in french.
 
Thought, idea, interpretation - Opinion

Monde is also a good one, but it doesn't roll off the tongue. It's a shame the name can't be as fluid as the concept, and people can't just make the name themselves.

There's a word in German that I love. It's Gestalt. It means form- but in normal conversation it has a definition that revolves around the concept of a whole being greater than its individual parts.

If push comes to shove, you could do what some devvs do, and name the project from your last name :P

Hey Vincent. Glad to hear that you're in.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-29, 05:58:39 PM
Actually there may be more than one thing to name here, depending on how I/we decide to host this project. There could be the whole idea/project of crowd-sourced 2-D game development. And it might involve multiple games. The first game on which we will run the experiment will probably be the "CleanGame", which I have long thought to name something like "nanoBots". That too is too common a term, though, so I may need to add a word like Vincent suggests -- "nanoBot Creator" or "nanoBot Builder", both of which return only 5 results on Google when searched as a phrase. But those words are somewhat mundane and maybe don't invite enough imagination. I think "nanoBot Evolution" sounds more exotic. But that phrase returns 461 Google results. I like the ideas of the words Gestalt, Avis, and possibly Monde (though I don't know what the last means). But I don't know how to turn them into a title. I remember coming up with the name TechnoVenture for a game I worked on a long time ago. I just wrote down a list of possible names, showed it to a friend and he picked one. And something about the word "TechnoVenture" flows right. Whatever name(s) we come up with should "roll off the tongue" as you said.

I return to the wikipiedia page for Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Teilhard_de_Chardin#Teachings) for some more vocabulary ideas that might embody what I want to convey. The word "orthogenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogenesis)" looks good, but might have to stand on its own because it's already a word of multiple meaningful components. Genesis is a good piece by itself, though. Also, in reviewing the term "noosphere", although I like the word, I fear people would have trouble with the consecutive "oo".

"Nanogenesis" is taken... cognostruct has 0 results on Google, and it conveys an essence of mind/intelligence and complexity/structure, but I'm not sure it rolls off the tongue very well.  As it turns out cognos by itself means nothing.  But there is a Latin word cognosco which means "I know".  And a related English (latin-derived) word cognoscente is a person with expert knowledge.  So I'm pondering terms like Cognosconstructor or Cognosconstruction.  But the hard g makes the word somewhat unappealing/unflowing like the "t"s Gestalt. And those are kind of long. Resorting to obscure word lists (http://phrontistery.info/cause.html) I see noogenesis is a very interesting word, but it has double "o" again.

Any of these thoughts inspire or agree with anybody?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-29, 06:52:13 PM
Whenever working with units, change the unit. :)

PicoBots? Femtobots?

The flowing off the tongue is the most important part.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-30, 06:05:17 AM
Well, it may be because I'm french, but "avis" doesn't appeal to me at all.  The sound isn't so pretty and it is such a mundane word.  There's also a car renting company with the same name that does absolutely bad tv commercials, so...  By the way "monde" means "world".  It seems more appropriate, but it's going to get a lot of results in search engines, for sure.  "Gestalt" does sound nice, but I can't shake the feeling that I heard it used for another game before...

I have an idea for the name.  I know the word in french, I don't what it is in english or in another languge.  "Courtepointe", google translates it as "Quilt" (don't think I ever heard that before).  A "courtepointe" was a kind of group project where women would weave a blanket (or sheet) together or one after another.  One would start off by making a small square which could be a small picture or something abstract and then she would pass it on to another woman of the family (sometimes this project was passed on from mother to daugther) and the other woman would do another square representing something else, and then pass it on, and so on until they achieved a complete sheet that was the sum of all those little squares.  Each part was a piece of art by itself but was ultimately only a part of the whole project. 

I like to think that this is a similar project in spirit.  And I certainly never heard of a game called "quilt".  Furthermore, I think it's short, easy to remember and sounds great.  (Well, it sounds good in my mind at least, I don't know if I pronounce it right.)  If it gives too much results in search engine, maybe we could add another word?  Or (I'm brainstorming here, please don't laugh), we could change the word to "quilters", as we are the ones doing the "quilt".  I don't think this word exists, but it's still easy to remember and sounds fine.

I don't know...  What do you guys think?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-30, 06:25:17 AM
Quilt is a well-known English word, but I think many people don't think of it the way the French do. When I hear the word "quilting" I get a similar feeling to "knitting", and I think many people feel like it's an activity done by grandmothers. But you're right that it does embody the idea very well of having little patches of art stitched together. If we combine it with another word to help people get past their initial impression of the word by itself, I think it could be a very effective term. Perhaps "Game Quilter" would be a good name. I like it because it has a similar meaning to Creator, but it's much more specific with lots of additional specific meaning in the use of the word "Quilter" instead of "Creator". I think it's a great idea. Game is kind of a generic term, but "Quilter" is such a great word to put with it that maybe it doesn't matter. Game Quilter might be good enough for me, but let's not stop here. If you have any more ideas, we can keep rolling. Maybe GameQuilt is even better, because we are naming the site and not the people. The people would be Game Quilters.

Edit: By the way, I don't have anything against grandmothers, but I do think people have a hard time associating them with computers. That's why I think the addition of another word to relate it to games or computers will perfect the term.

Edit 2: Interesting that you should mention quilt because it's similar in concept to mosaic, and I just this month made a mosaic picture of my grandmother (http://enigmadream.com/maryann) (HTML5 browser required). Perhaps Mosaic is another term we should consider -- and other similar terms like collage.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-30, 06:55:50 AM
You're right, it is quite grandmotherly and it's very similar to a mosaic.  By the way, nice work with the mosaic.  Your grandmother's clothes are very colourful so the mosaic is really flashy.  :)

I like GameQuilt.  Or "WorldQuilt"?

Mosaic and collage seem less grandmotherly, but they don't sound as good with another word (GameMosaic? GameCollage?).  Unless we use only "Mosaic".  But wasn't there an early internet browser with the same name?

I'm still thinking.

(absolutely no connection with this conversation whatsoever)
Hey btw, I gotta ask: why the is the never-ending talking smiley called "canadian"?  Do canadians have the reputation of talking too much in the US?
Edit: Btw, don't be afraid to be honest with the "canadian" thing.  It won't piss me off, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-30, 07:27:07 AM
@#Sharp: Thanks! Yeah, I'd like to be a part of this project.  But like I said, I don't know how much time I can put in: I have another personal project at the same time.  I have to learn Java to open up new opportunities at work, so I started working on a game in Java.  Well, it's not much of a game right now, it's more like a tool to create dynamic 3D skies, but I'd like to turn this into a game eventually.  I didn't want to talk about it here since it's not SGDK2 and I don't want to look like a traitor.   :P  I miss working with SGDK2 and I'm very fond of it, so I'd be glad to help in this project. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-30, 08:17:06 AM
I guess this so-called Canadian face :canadian: is a (obscure?) reference to South Park, who represents Canadians as heads that split at the mouth. Other's have wondered (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090826093250AA4hA63) the same thing (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070124090225AA4deah).

So far I think my favorite idea is still GameQuilt.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-30, 08:51:11 AM
Oh, I didn't follow South Park.  I've seen only a few episodes.  Thanks for the references. :)
I'm in for GameQuilt too.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-30, 03:18:46 PM
I recall mentioning the Canadian face in another thread. (Those were the days)
Vincent- You're French? That's so amazing! I really need to practice my French. I have a giant AP exam coming in less than a month.

Bluemonkmn, your Grandmother looks like a very happy person. She reminds me of how my Grandmother usually smiles.
Vincent- I agree in a way, Avis makes me think of Vis-A-Vis, although I pronounce it Avvy in class, the spelling is something that I can't shake off.
I had taken an official Comp. Science Java class online in Virtual High School last semester(The only online class that I could get, the State funds one per semester) as the professor on a college open house said I needed to have prior experience with it to excel in my major.

I'd be interested in hearing about your 3D Skies. Are you drawing a 3D Sphere or Half-Sphere, putting a texture onto it, and rendering a 2D or 3D world?
If you're using the 3D skies in combination with a 2D world (2D sprites and tiles) I'd definitely love to see some videos. It's rare to see someone utilize that concept.
I'm sure if you're mentioning the OpenGL technical information only, it won't be (treason :) )

I hope your game development goes well.

I like the Quilt concept, but does that mean that what's already existing in the game is permanent and only new content can be added, like adding a new patch to a quilt? Forgive me, I don't have experience with quilts.

Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-30, 03:40:51 PM
Well, source control (at least what I'm familiar with - Team Foundation Server) generally never involves losing what's there. It's always there in the history. However that doesn't prevent someone from laying a new set of changes on top of yours. I suppose you could do the same with a quilt, though I've never heard of that being done. When someone gets the latest code from a particular branch, they will effectively see only the outer-most layer of the quilt. But using source control labels, one could choose pieces from any point in time, effectively enjoying the quilt as it appeared on any particular date. But no, users will be able to edit existing (overlay) pieces, not just add new pieces. I think the quilt can also be used as a great metaphor for describing to new users how their changes are merged with those of others. Think of it, even the term "patch" applies to both software and quilting!

BTW, as soon as I get CleanGame (Nanobots?) working, I think Mercurial will be the first source control I look into -- I've never seen it before, but it comes highly recommended I guess.

Edit: I'm reading some interesting examples and info about how Mercurial works (http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/UnderstandingMercurial).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-30, 03:51:41 PM
Well with a quilt concept, will we be able to step back and see what the original game looked like at a certain point in time? (Backups- I'm not entirely familiar with Source Control)
Say I was nostalgic and wanted to see what this looked at at an earlier stage.. (Say when we just started making it)

And when you say getting Nanobots working, are you referring to the HTML5 implementation?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-30, 06:07:09 PM
Yes, source control generally has "branches" and "versions". A branch is a separate path of code changes that would run in parallel to someone else's changes based on the same root or parent. A version represents any individual set of changes made on one branch. With source control, you can get any version of any branch to see what anybody's version of the game looked like at any point in time. Without yet knowing more about Mercurial, I can be too much more specific than that.

Yes, I'm talking about getting Nanobots working as an HTML5 game.  I'm making progress.  I got it to actually run for a few seconds before hitting an error now (just gotta keep translating C# to JavaScript).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: durnurd on 2012-03-30, 07:09:38 PM
I've been using Git at work recently, which is similar to Mercurial. I've found it to be really nice to use, but it has a pretty steep learning curve.  It has all the same ideas of branches, tags, and distributed control.

I don't mean to be a downer, but I don't like the quilt concept. It doesn't evoke the idea of crowd-sourced changes in the way he word crowd itself does. If there's a good synonym for crowd, it seems like it might be a good idea.  For the second part, since the idea here is to take a bunch of small pieces and putting them all together, it reminds me of the steps of compiling a computer program. You could go with compile, assemble, link, or something I can't think of.  Or maybe just something to specify that this is, in fact, a game.

CrowdLink.  GroupLink.  CloudGame. CloudLink. Which turns out to be the names of main characters of two mainstream RPGs.

I dunno, I can't think of any particularly good ideas, but the word quilt just doesn't sit right with me.  Sorry, I'm being a downer, but I think that getting an opposing point of view is good for the process.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-30, 09:01:30 PM
The person who suggested Mercurial was really down on Git for some reason.  And if it has a steep learning curve, that seems like a bad choice unless we make some kind of wrapper to make it simpler for the masses to use.  Will have to weight the pros and cons of source control systems a bit I guess.

On the one hand I agree that quilt is rather far from the "mental space" I was looking for to express the idea of what this project would be. But then I think of Little Big Planet and remember how much like a crafting project that looked like when you started to see the various materials you could use in its levels. And it reminded me that maybe if you want to appeal to the masses, you have to speak in more down-to-earth terms... maybe? But I'm not sure I want to appeal to *those* masses :). Will have to keep thinking. I forgot to mention that one of the ideas I had (before starting this discussion) was "OurGame". I may have discarded it because it was too mundane. I can't remember now. Good thoughts, though.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-31, 09:30:49 AM
Super ____ World?

Ethermeal/Ephermeal?

Quiltr? (Tumblr, Twitter)

Struct?

Play3r?

I think FreeRealms sounds good but I've heard of it somewhere before.

It's hard to find something nice..
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-03-31, 11:42:33 AM
At some point I'll have to stop brainstorming and start collecting / deciding, but another idea occurred to me to make the name be an acronym of all the words I wanted to include, but thought the full words would be too difficult.  Perhaps the acronym will flow better than the words.  For example, NOVAGEM:
Noosphere
Orthogenesis
Via
Assembling
Game
Edits
Massively
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-31, 11:56:43 AM
okay, way off topic but:
@#Sharp: I would be happy to help you with your french.  Maybe start another topic or send me a message.  I don't see any obvious relation between "vis-
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-03-31, 12:03:42 PM
I like NOVAGEM.  If you make it clear that it is an acronym, it's pretty cool. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-03-31, 12:14:03 PM
Vertex coloring on an overlapping sphere for Day and Night Cycles! I never thought of that! It's much easier than trying to morph a daytime and nighttime texture. :O

And back on topic again, NOVAGEM sounds nice- well Nova sounds great too.

Maybe Neo?

Here's another one... StoryWriter?

Eon?

But if you don't like those, NOVAGEM is nice. I do agree, we should progress soon.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: mltsy on 2012-03-31, 04:51:23 PM
Other terms that come to mind that could contribute to a good name: Assemblage, Gamelan, Chorus

I kinda like Gamelan (Project?) because it has the word game in it, and is essentially a collection of pieces which are sculpted and tuned to fit together into one grand instrument :)  I also like GameChorus - but that may just be because I'm particularly inclined to musical analogies ;)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-01, 07:13:03 AM
OK, just having 2 conflicting thoughts:

1. Thinking about it more, I am starting to think that, unless there's a really remarkably appropriate term that sounds great, the name should do more to convey what the project is actually about rather than sounding fancy or interesting. With that in mind, and considering some of the other ideas on this thread, I am thinking now of the name "CrowdGameX", which is intended to convey that this is a Crowdsourced Game eXperiment, plain and simple. If the experiment goes well, maybe other projects will spring up with more specific and interesting names, but this being the first one, maybe it's appropriate to name it something relatively straightforward. I was thinking also that there will not be a separate name for the larger project independent from the specific (CleanGame-based) SGDK2 project. But now I am led to thought 2...

2. It doesn't seem right to name the SGDK2 file "CrowdGameX.sgdk2". It should be more specific to what the game is like, like MineCraft. But I still think having 2 names is going to get confusing. So maybe we should focus more on what the name of this first project is going to be rather than the nature of the whole crowd-sourced game experiment. Sure this project will be a *type* of experiment in crowd-sourced gaming, but we're not starting a company here; we don't need to name a company (at least not yet :)). The homepage for the game can talk about the larger philosophy/experiment. But as for a name, I think we just need to name this particular game. People will learn about the experimental aspects in other ways. That doesn't mean the game name can't include any hint of the larger project (it could still have an X), but there should at least be some hint of the content of the game itself in the name.

So taking both of *those* thoughts into account, CrowdGameX doesn't seem right because when you think of the content of the game, it's not so much about how it is crowd-sourced, especially at the beginning when very few people have touched the game. But the word "Our" does seem more appropriate because it's... less philosophical, and more just referring to this game as one that multiple people "own". But the noun to go with it is the trick. OurGame is still too generic. OurGameX? Still not speaking enough about the content of the game. Yes, the content of the game could change wildly, but there should at least be some vague attempt at referring to the content like "world" or ... heh... "planet" (just not a "little big" one).

Thinking... IotaBuildIt! This might be the silver bullet of names in that it accomplishes many things:
1. It sounds like "I oughtta build it", so it's kind of catchy in that way (multiple meanings)
2. Iota means a very small amount
3. The idea of the overall project is for people to build their own pieces of the world
4. The (current) idea of the game is to build nano-robots that accomplish certain tasks.
5. Each contribution to the project can be very small (like an iota)
6. Nano-bots in the game are very small things that you build
7. "I oughtta build it" suggests that people really *should* help build the game, we really invite them to add their own content

How do you all feel about "IotaBuildIt" (or possibly some variation of this thought) as the name for the project and the game?

Edit: One more thing: 0 results on Google, so we would "own" that term.

Edit 2: We could also use the unique iota symbol "ɩ" in a logo. It's a unicode character that looks a lot like "i", but it has no dot. So even with a single character we can hint at this game/project... ɩBuildIt
ɩBuildIt
I like the Times font representation better.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-01, 07:53:06 AM
I Oughtta build it. XD That's it!
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-01, 11:45:22 AM
Reading an article comparing git and mercurial (http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/git-vs-mercurial/) I was initially leaning toward git, but as I progressed through the article (and started seeing some of git's drawbacks and the final conclusion) I started to think that Mercurial would be more appropriate for this project. On the one hand, git is very flexible and powerful, and I was most interested by its "omniscient merge capabilities". But Mercurial seems more suited to newbies and simple projects. Since this project will likely consist of 1 (.SGDK2) or 2 (+ .html) files, the source control is likely to be very simple. The main complexity comes in the branching if we plan to have a branch for each user, with a whole lot of users in play. If we do get a massively branched project I start to wonder if git would be more appropriate. But both systems handle branching, and I don't see why we would want to make it more complex than necessary if we have a choice. I will probably try to read a bit more about each system, but at the moment, Mercurial looks good.

The things I don't know about yet are what kind of interfaces exist to these systems. If git has a really good UI for people to merge changes without having to download anything (will have to investigage github.com to see if that's what this is) it might be worthwhile. But when the article started talking about installing hundreds of binaries, I was seriously turned off of git. Ideally, I want people to be able to submit their SGDK2 file, and have the server handle all the merging, and even the hosting of the final HTML5 results. Perhaps both git and Mercurial can host all that logic on the server with the help of some PHP scripts. But it's not clear to me yet how that would operate in each environment. Maybe I'm going against the grain by trying to centrally host a distributed version control system. I'm still not very clear on how that works with SourceForge (they allow hosting with Git, Subversion or Mercurial).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-01, 12:20:19 PM
I was not aware that source control had evolved so dramatically since I last visited the topic when I learned about Team Foundation Server.  As I read an illustrated introduction to distributed version control (http://betterexplained.com/articles/intro-to-distributed-version-control-illustrated/), I'm getting excited about the possibilities, and just how well it will fit this project (IotaBuildIt?). I was concerned about the ability of users to be able to pick and choose changes to share and how to identify them independently of other changes, but those are much more native concepts in distributed version control than they were in central version control. This is great! That means it might be much easier to identify and rate unique sets of changes, and how/where to pick them up.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-04-02, 05:49:26 AM
I like IotaBuildIt.  If we start with the concept of nanobots (or iotabots?) it seems very relevant.  I'm not sure about the greek letter in the logo.  It's so close to an "i" that it will probably confuse people.  They will think that it's "ibuiltIt" rather than "iota".
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-02, 06:56:36 AM
I had the same thought about using the iota symbol next to the words "BuildIt". I think it would work better if the logo were the iota symbol next to an image of some sort, like ... a wrench and a humanoid figure without a head... or a head held in his hand (presumably a robot, but not distinguishable in a monochrome logo-style image).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-02, 08:52:46 AM
I can't wait to see how the actual project evolves, the name seems to be final.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-02, 09:11:51 AM
How do you feel about the name, durnurd? I don't know if I'd change it, but still interested in your thoughts. :)

Also, I came up with an alternate version of the logo, where it's clear that the body is a robot.

Still making progress on getting the game to run as HTML5.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-04-02, 09:55:23 AM
I prefer the new head.  But maybe the whole body should me made blocky too.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: durnurd on 2012-04-03, 06:55:00 AM
This new name does seem a lot better to me, yes.

Now, my thoughts on the logo:  the first thing I get is that it's something I should be reading left to right. Which I suppose is what you're going far insofar as describing the project with a logo.  However, what I read from it is "I wrench headless robot". At least, that's my first thought.  If you're trying to make the logo a literal interpretation of the project's name, it is going in the right direction at least. I can even see it saying "iota build headless robot".

Perhaps the logo here is a version specific to the nano bot version.  What we could do is find some way to make a logo saying "iota build ___", and for any particular version of the project, you fill in the blank with the concept of the project. So, with this iteration of the logo, any project would have the iota symbol followed by the wrench, followed by a stylistically equivalent icon representing the theme, eg a robot.

I'm not sure that the iota followed by the wrench option is the best option, but it's certainly a good place to start.  And as for the robot, the way it's standing there, it could look cool to have it be building itself.

However in this case, you also have to avoid accidentally saying "iota repair headless robot", which is what this icon could be conveying because of the connection between wrenches in particular, and machinery like a robot.  A different tool, or tools, could be used instead, like a hammer and a screwdriver crossed in an X.  Or something.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-03, 08:39:14 AM
Perhaps instead of a wrench, I should have another human figure, and instead of the robot head being held by the robot, it will be in the process of being placed by the human figure on the robot. (And I do think the robot should be all block-y like the head is.) No time to do that now, but I'll try that later if it sounds like a better idea. I have to make sure it looks like the head is going on and not coming off. I think I can suggest that a bit by having the human standing on stairs next to the bot. Or maybe, because the robots are supposed to be small, the human figure could be kneeling and putting the head on a small robot.

Edit: I wonder if it would be enough to just have a robot with the head above a gap and a down arrow (no wrench or human).  The simpler the logo the better, probably.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-03, 10:03:19 PM
I understand the need to have an icon that will draw the masses here, but will the icon ever reach a point where the users define it themselves?

Or is the icon static, and set in stone regardless to whatever shape the game takes later?

It's nothing at the icon right now, I don't have a problem with it- I just want to scope exactly what range of arbitrary definition this game will have- the engine and gameplay being fluid, or the marketing that defines it.

(Then again countries get together to change their flags.)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-04, 06:13:32 AM
I wasn't planning on having the icon or logo change for this iteration of the project. But I wouldn't rule it out.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-04, 07:00:40 AM
Are either of these better?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-04-04, 07:06:18 AM
I like the second one, with iota as a tie! :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-04, 07:09:40 AM
Ah, I didn't see it as a tie, but now that you mention it, it does look that way. Nice! :)
Maybe someday ThinkGeek will make iota ties :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-04-04, 07:15:12 AM
Haha!  I would definitely buy one! :)  Btw, nice work with the "blockyer" silhouette.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-04, 05:12:13 PM
Appropriately, I used SGDK2's graphics editor to make it.  I did everything except draw the iota.  I copy and pasted the iota from Paint into SGDK2 because SGDK2 doesn't have a text tool.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-05, 06:51:41 PM
Getting closer to a fully functional HTML5 version of the iotaBuildIt game (http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/iotaBuildIt/iotaBuildIt.html).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-05, 07:44:39 PM
ShowMessage! Yes!

This- this is amazing! I can't believe that I'm playing (Formerly) CleanGame in the browser.

I never had the chance to ask- have you seen a audio playback system that handles mod files yet?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-06, 05:23:47 AM
ShowMessage! Yes!

Actually ShowMessage was working without any modifications. That one works in the HTML5 sample game. Were you able to play the tutorial level to the point where things grind to a halt near the bomb throwing bot?

I never had the chance to ask- have you seen a audio playback system that handles mod files yet?

FMOD plays MOD files, but I haven't found (or looked for) anything to play MOD files in a browser yet. Looks like some resort to Flash to play some MOD files (http://mrsteel.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/8bitboy-mod-tracker-file-player-by-andre-michelle-and-joa-ebert/). I just posted a running sample (http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/8bitboy/BitboyApp.swf) and it seems to work. The first 4 songs were included in the sample. The rest are my own. I think it only takes files with 4 channels (I think that's build into the MOD format). But all the songs I made on my old Amiga (thanks again to durnurd for rescuing them) seem to work for the most part. A couple of them have tempo problems, and some of the special instruments I used in some of the songs didn't come through.  But I've had the same problem with every player I've tried since the Amiga. But it works... if you don't mind delivering this flash component with your page. I don't know if it can be controlled well via javascript.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-06, 06:42:42 AM
I'm going to try to get started on coming up with some content for the homepage. Help me figure out what interesting exciting points I'm missing.

What is iotaBuildIt?
It's an experimental game and method or philosophy for creating games. The game itself started out as one with very basic, flat graphics, and a number of features, but still very little actual game-play other than a tutorial on how to play. But a good portion of the available mechanics in the game revolves around building small robots from components that you pick up. Each component has a specific task, like powering other components, moving the robot or reacting to other creatures, to take a few examples. And the iotaBuildIt philosophy also revolves around building something from small components: the game itself. It is an experiment in crowd-sourced game development. Each user/player is invited to contribute something of their own to the game world that any other player can then enjoy as they play the game. Then, the hope is, if and when players can rate these contributions, the best game will evolve from countless contributions from multitudes of users. There is much more to say about what iotaBuildIt is, but much of it will be defined by the players. More details will be discussed below.

Why is it called iotaBuildIt?
The meaning of the word "iota" is something very small. The hope is that a multitude of contributions, however small, can add up to something great when combined. Similarly, the robots in the game are built from small components. One of the working titles for the game was "nanobots", but of course those are invisibly small. So maybe it makes more sense to call them "iota" bots. Combining small components to make a functional whole. The title iotaBuildIt also sounds like "I oughtta build it", and you should! We all ought to put something into this game to improve or expand it. The game is about building robots from small components, and the philosophy/method is about building a game from small contributions. The single title covers both of these concepts.

How does iotaBuildIt compare to other games
Understanding the vision for iotaBuildIt may be best accomplished by comparing and contrasting it with other games
GameSimilaritiesDifferences
Conventional platformer (Super Mario World)The basic gameplay is similar to any platformer. It's a side-view game that scrolls as you move. There's a world map. You collect items by touching them, ride platforms, climb ladders, go through doors, etc.
  • The game is playable in an HTML5-capable browser, so it's (hopefully) cross platform, which is not common for many of the platformers of the past.
  • Editing the game is encouraged. Few platform games have editors, and fewer still (if any) encourage editing of the game down to the level of changing graphics and introducing new types of creatures (sprites) or backgrounds (tiles).
  • Editing is flexible. Even for games that do have editors, the editors are designed for that particular game whereas the software used to edit this game is a general-purpose scrolling game creator, and can be used to define a wide range of graphics and behaviors with very little need to write code.
MineCraft
  • The elements are pretty basic to start with - blocky/simple graphics.
  • The world is open-ended as people are encouraged to contribute to and change it.
  • The game involves on building things out of resources that you find.
  • This game is currently 2D, and will probably stay that way.
  • Building within the game does not currently involve much changing of the environment, just building robots.
  • Building outside the gameplay process is much more flexible, encouraging users not only to edit the blocks/tiles, but also all the ingredients: graphics, recipes, enemy behaviors; you could embed an entirely different kind of 2D game within this one.
  • Because editing during the gameplay process is limited, it's possible to define much more elaborate puzzles and stories with specific constraints that can't be circumvented by players. For example, in MineCraft, it's very hard to trap a player because they likely have the resources necessary to build or dig their way out.
  • The world is (currently) 100% created by players instead of generated.
Little Big Planet
  • A multitude of players contribute their own content to the game universe.
  • There is a separate mode for designing versus playing levels so that the player is constrained to certain rules while playing.
  • Players can define how the environment and other creatures behave in their contributions.
  • Contributions are shared with all so anybody can play.
  • The intent is to (eventually) have a rating system so players can easily identify the best content to play with.
  • Players are encouraged to integrate their content seamlessly into others' content rather than having independent modules/levels.
  • Players can contribute modifications and enhancements to graphics and fundamental functionality. Although Little Big Planet allows players to take pictures, and develop music, and define behaviors based on a pre-defined set of functions (pistons, logic gates, etc), it does not let you define objects at the same level as which the initial game was developed. In this game, every player has a power to create equal to that of the initial creator.
  • The graphics and mechanics in this game are currently flatter than those in Little Big Planet.
  • The physics in this game are not as realistic as Little Big Planet; they are more tile-based.
  • This game is free to play and edit on any HTML5-capable platform (not limited to a game console).

How does editing work?
Although all the components of this feature are present, they have yet to be combined into a clean package. But I hope some iota builders out there will assist in formalizing this process. The elements are:
1. Scrolling Game Development Kit 2 (http://sgdk2.sf.net) to edit the game elements, and export the game to playable HTML5 format, like this (http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/iotaBuildIt/iotaBuildIt.html). (Although someday, other editors may arise to edit the game more readily, perhaps editing the source file on the web, or editing the HTML5 file directly.)
2. The game itself - currently an SGDK2 project file, though we may consider some versions in which the HTML5 output is manipulated directly.
3. A distributed version control system, such as Mercurial (http://mercurial.selenic.com/), and it's companion TortoiseHg (http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/) will be used to track and merge contributions from a broad array of players.
4. SourceForge (http://sf.net) will (is) likely hosting this project and the PHP code (yet to be developed) to rate and combine contributions into playable HTML5 content.
5. A wiki will also be hosted at SourceForge for people to document and discuss the project.

Philosophy
There is much to say here, but very briefly for now, I think more people should be collaborating more substantially on larger projects. I would like to talk about the Noosphere and how our combined efforts on a huge scale can develop something greater than an individual, or even a corporation. I think corporations are limited in their hierarchical structure which likely prevents many good ideas from surfacing, and inhibits quick and free flow/evolution of ideas.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-04-06, 09:44:54 AM
I think you're on the right track for the exciting features of iotaBuildIt.  You already have a lot of information, maybe too much for an home page.  Btw, I tried the html5 version of the game, great job! :)  It really improved since I last tried it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-06, 10:46:48 AM
Hey, odd question, but will this game have 2 - 4 players support (SANS the chatroom functionality, so we can focus strictly on the game)

Simple play with one person, and rather than talking to the person like the other online games of today through Instant Messaging, simply just enjoying the gameplay?

Kind of like a 2 player controller port for a browser based game

It would be fun, almost like Sonic 2 in the ways that players could race in levels, or New Super Mario Bros, where players could silently compete with each other

I know it would be possible in the HTML5 version (The only thing limiting me is the lack of a decent backend) but I could imagine it would be a great idea


By the way, I looked into the Mod file you posted with 8bitboy, bluemonkmn, I don't think it will be too much of a hassle to include a flash playback system.

(Of course, I'm going to try and look into another not needing to be named game program to see what they use; the best things are usually eclectic, as you're proving with the concept for this game :))
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-06, 11:04:44 AM
You already have a lot of information, maybe too much for an home page.

Good point. Some of the info will have to be split into other pages.

Hey, odd question, but will this game have 2 - 4 players support (SANS the chatroom functionality, so we can focus strictly on the game)

Not planned, but it's conceivable anyone could add that.

By the way, I looked into the Mod file you posted with 8bitboy, bluemonkmn, I don't think it will be too much of a hassle to include a flash playback system.

My concern is whether the UI for the player can be hidden and the game can control everything about what's playing and when. Also, if we use Flash, then are we eliminating any HTML5-capable browsers that don't support Flash or users who don't want to install/use/enable Flash?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-06, 11:22:51 AM
What bothers me more is playing multiple sounds at once.

I believe we're in luck. I've been searching nihilogic for about 3 years now back in my HTML5 phase and it's a great place to go to.

http://jsspeccy.zxdemo.org/jsmodplayer/

Amiga'ish mod file player

Built from

https://github.com/bfirsh/dynamicaudio.js

There's good an bad news. It uses Firefox's audio data API, but if the browser doesn't support this, it switches back to Flash.

Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-06, 12:14:45 PM
What bothers me more is playing multiple sounds at once.

What about that bothers you?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-06, 08:53:12 PM
What bothers me more is playing multiple sounds at once.

What about that bothers you?

Managing multiple sounds being played at once with the player you had posted.

If one 'widget' has to be initialized to play a sound, then would there be any complications in playing multiple files?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-07, 05:56:11 AM
Well, if I stick to the HTML5 audio tag, I think it's easy to play multiple sounds at once so long as you put them in separate audio tags. I'm still not sure I understand in what sense you're using the word "bother". You're "uncertain" of how it would work? Or you think it won't work? Or you think it's not the right way to work?

My assumption is that other components would work similarly, separate components stream sound through the OS, which mixes them all into one. But I guess I don't know.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-07, 12:24:20 PM
Well, if I stick to the HTML5 audio tag, I think it's easy to play multiple sounds at once so long as you put them in separate audio tags. I'm still not sure I understand in what sense you're using the word "bother". You're "uncertain" of how it would work? Or you think it won't work? Or you think it's not the right way to work?

My assumption is that other components would work similarly, separate components stream sound through the OS, which mixes them all into one. But I guess I don't know.

I'm going to look into the HTML5 Audio Tag. I'm uncertain how I would be able to trigger a sound at a certain point, while running another sound (Say background music)

I'm also wondering if it (the solution) would be about creating a tag for every file on the loading of the game, and then 'triggering' a tag to play a sound at a certain point (PlaySound).

It's not important now, that's a bridge we'll have to cross once we reach the river's bank. :(
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-07, 08:24:07 PM
OK, I've got the SourceForge site for the project started, and all the information I posted in my 1 post earlier included in the Wiki (as well as a more complete philosophy) at https://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/wiki/Home/ (https://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/wiki/Home/). I think anybody who can log in to SourceForge has permission to submit additions and modifications to the Wiki, similar to WikiPedia. So have at it if you see ways to improve it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-08, 05:00:39 PM
I've committed the code to source control for the first time, and it's visible at http://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/code/ci/44bb96612ebe0804d63e325d25caf1dcce4555dd/tree/ (http://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/code/ci/44bb96612ebe0804d63e325d25caf1dcce4555dd/tree/).

I'm still a bit fuzzy on how this new form of source control works, but if you have TortoiseHg, you should be able to download the code. Hopefully with a little more research, I can find ways to:
1. Allow you to download the code without having TortoiseHg, and
2. (with the help of some custom PHP code perhaps) allow you to "play" a specific version of the code in the repository right in the browser by just specifying a changeset or version id.

I don't know what branching looks like yet because there's been only my 1 commit. But hopefully when I get a chance I can open up the repository for others to participate, see what branching looks like, and figure out what makes sense for accepting and tracking submissions, and for pulling them into a "workspace" where someone can play a particular version.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-04-11, 04:19:33 PM
I may be some days late, but I noticed that sound works in the game. :)

Is there any specific way on how you would like us to start working with this?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-11, 08:01:30 PM
Actually HTML5 sound was working in the first demo I posted after coming up with this project. (At least in Chrome it was working. I test in Chrome and sometimes IE. I rarely get to FireFox.)

I am still investigating how Mercurial source control works. But you are invited to get TortoiseHg and see how straightforward it is (if you can figure it out without any further instruction) to get the code and maybe try an update and see what your options for sharing your update are. Otherwise, I still need to figure out how I want massive participation in this project to work. I may have need of a PHP script that can automatically retrieve a specific version from Mercurial and host it for an arbitrary player and a script to let players rate specific versions / changesets. (When all the HTML files are split out as they are in the current source control structure, you can't play locally in Chrome -- not sure if that was the best choice, but it would be nice to have the files split out like that -- easier to read.)  I haven't had a lot of time to research lately. I think the next step is still mine; I'm just having a hard time getting around to it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-12, 07:44:14 PM
Okay, I have done a little more investigation, and I think I have a rough idea of one possible way of operating, although I'm not sure it's the ideal method for the long term because it still requires a sort of developer mindset to participate in the project (you have to get TortoiseHg and make your own local repository and go through a number of steps to commit changes).  But I think this could work to get a limited number of people started in participating in the project. When we understand SourfeForge and Mercurial a bit better we may be able to implement some PHP scripts to help get more users invovled by making the whole process even easier. Meanwhile, would anybody be interested in helping me document the process of participating in the project at this early stage, especially with respect to getting the permission checked and straightened out?

1. These are some steps I used to commit and merge code:
   a. Download TortoiseHg
   b. Create a folder for iotaBuildIt
   c. Right-click on the folder, open the "TortoiseHg" pop-up menu and select "Clone..."
   d. Replace the path in the "source" box with "ssh://xxxxx@hg.code.sf.net/p/iotabuildit/free4all" where xxxxx is your SourceForge user account (you'll need a SourceForge account)
   e. This should get you the source code. Now you can run SGDK2 (I assume as SGDK2 forum members you know all about that part) to run and edit the project.
   f. When you make an edit you want to share, save the SGDK2 file, and run an HTML5 export
   g. When exporting the HTML5, specify the HTML folder where Mercurial code downloaded HTML content, and be sure to check the box and select the option to split the output into as many files as possible.
   h. Right-click on the Mercurial root folder and select Hg Commit... (follow the steps, which will commit the changes to your local repository - I don't remember what it looks like)
   i. Right-click on the Mercurial root folder and select Hg Workbench
   j. Select Synchronize from teh View menu
   k. In the lower pane, verify that the path you are uploading to is ssh://hg.code.sf.net/p/iotabuildit/free4all - you may want to insert your_user_name@ before the "hg."
   l. Click the button to "push outgoing changesets to remote repository"
   m. Navitage to https://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/free4all/ (https://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/free4all/) and click "Request Merge"... follow whatever feels right from there.
   n. Keep in mind there are other ways to share your changes in a distributed version control system. This is just if you want to merge your changes back into the base/root image (the parent of the "free4all" fork where anybody can commit changes)
   o. You can supposedly also create your own fork of the "code" repository (not just the free4all repository) in your own user directory. Check if you have permission to do that.
2. I'm interested in your thoughts about ways in which you think users could participate in submitting changes, and what skills you might have to make it easier:
   a. Scripts to automatically accept uploaded source files and merge directly on he server if possible
   b. Scripts to automatically host a set of HTML files from a specific version in the repository so someone can test a particular change submission
3. I have yet to complete the work on making the full game work in HTML5, but much of the game is playable now, so feel free to start looking into these processes as I continue this work.
4. Check out what permissions you have to update the Wiki. I think any SourceForge user should have permission. I invite you to update the "participate" page in the Wiki to describe how to participate in updating both the Wiki and the source files. When documenting the process on the "participate" page, note that:
   a. The process is being documented by a user, and, likewise, anyone is welcome to contribute improvements to the Wiki.
   b. The process is still under development, and the current description is just one (or a few) ways of sharing your changes.
   c. Feel free to document multiple processes (Make your own fork or just use the free4all fork, or whatever else you learn).

If nobody is ready for this kind of involvement yet, I'll continue to work on HTML5 corrections and research more Mercurial features later.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-14, 06:45:49 PM
Well, the game running at http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/iotaBuildIt/iotaBuildIt.html (http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/iotaBuildIt/iotaBuildIt.html) is fully functional as far as I can tell. All the functionality in the Tutorial and (unfinished) Level 1 seems to be working. Now to investigate source control options in more depth, starting with the replies to my question at StackOverflow (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10139746/recommended-dvcs-mechanism-for-hosting-many-independent-patches/10141802#comment13010436_10141802).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-16, 07:13:55 AM
I'm waffling all over trying to find the optimal mechanisms for managing the source code and hosting submitted changes for review. Today I starting to think that I should not rely so heavily on existing mechanisms because all I want really is a means to store and rate diff files, which is pretty simple in itelf. And so maybe I should jump right into the PHP coding step to see how straightforwardly I can manage this when I have some web app code to act as the interface. The biggest benefits will be that users don't need to download TortoiseHg or any form of source control software because I should be able to allow them to just submit their batch of files and have all that handled on the server. Then I thought, why don't I just go back to having branches for every user instead of trying to manage patches and diff files. If the web app can control how the code goes it, it might be easier to manage changeset ID numbers instead of the whole content of the patches. Let the content of the changes be managed within the source control. Then I started reading again about the differences between Git and Mercurial. And I am starting to get a sneaking suspicion that Git might do a better job of handling the less orderly branching/commit structure in which I think I'm interested, based on some things I'm reading at http://www.rockstarprogrammer.org/post/2008/apr/06/differences-between-mercurial-and-git/ (http://www.rockstarprogrammer.org/post/2008/apr/06/differences-between-mercurial-and-git/). If the complexity of git can be hidden behind a web app, maybe it's not so bad.

So, durnurd, I believe you mentioned/recommended git. Can you describe in any more detail what you like about git or your experience with it, or anything you think I might find useful?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-19, 07:20:54 AM
Okay, after asking and getting an answer to yet another question on StackOverflow (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10226930/online-dvcs-client/10228202) I am moving away from the idea of git again, and leaning back toward every user (who wants to contribute content) having a local Mercurial client (just because I think TortoiseHg is that much nicer than msysgit and all other git clients I have seen, and TortoiseGit relies on msysgit for some reason while TortoiseHg includes Mercurial in the same package).  Now I am thinking that the SourceForge project will simply become a place where users can post their version of the game, info about how to pull their modifications into your own version, and review the various modifications. Oh, and it will of course be the starting point from which users can fork their Mercurial repositories before other users' repositories exist from which new users can fork. I am startign to see the light of DVCS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_revision_control), but wow it's taking a while to sink in.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: durnurd on 2012-04-22, 08:39:51 AM
I've become a fan of SourceTree at work, which is a (Mac-only) client for both Git and Mercurial. There ought to be (as in I'm sure there is somewhere) a similar client for Windows.  I only bring it up to point out Tortoise* is not the only good option.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-04-23, 05:08:38 AM
I think I've worked out a system for folks to manage and host their submissions. I implemented the PHP scripts yesterday to request that a specific version be hosted (http://iotabuildit.sf.net/host/) and to list and delete hosted copies (http://iotabuildit.sf.net/host/list.php). Now I just have to write detailed instructions (http://sourceforge.net/p/iotabuildit/wiki/participate) on how, as a user, one sets up their environment and uses the site. In the end, it looks like you will need a Mercurial client. I hope there are enough people who are interested in playing with these tools that having to download an extra piece of software doesn't turn them off. Distributed source control is kind of cool, and what better way to learn about it than working on this project. If nothing else, this will be a fun way to learn about DVCS / Mercurial. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-03, 07:51:38 PM
Okay, it may not be the ideal process, but I have made a tutorial video about how to participate in iotaBuildIt. Would anybody care to review it, maybe try it out and see if the process works for anyone besides myself? It's posted at http://youtu.be/8krnOeZ7hK4 (http://youtu.be/8krnOeZ7hK4).

Sadly, Youtube seems to have converted it to low resolution. I'm out og steam for tonight. Anybody know how to host higher quality video on YouTube?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-03, 08:44:09 PM
When I use FRAPS and upload my AVI videos (Which are usually around 130MB just for 30 seconds), youtube converts them to HD, which is something I'm still trying to understand.

I can't give a solid answer, but it could be related to the file format.

EDIT: Sorry that I haven't done much with this yet. It's my senior year and I'm trying to get everything together before graduation.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: tprime on 2012-05-03, 11:47:12 PM
I did not get far... TortoisePlink is asking me for a password. I used my SourceForge password, but it's not accepting it.  :(
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-04, 04:48:14 AM
I did not get far... TortoisePlink is asking me for a password. I used my SourceForge password, but it's not accepting it.  :(

Thanks for the feedback, Tony. I was afraid of not covering the security/SSH key step. I guess I do need to demonstrate how to set up an SSH key in order for people to be able to interact with the SourceForge repository. Next time maybe I will make 2 videos, 1 for setup and 1 for making updates. And the SSH key will go in the setup video.

Looking at it again, I see that my video *does* have an HD option, and HD just isn't as high-res as I'd hoped. It's only 720p. Next time I record the tutorial, I will set my recording area to 1280x720 (720p) and it will probably look much better.

I realize it's a hard time to participate as a student, and that's fine. That's good because I'm not quite ready to have all the students out there seeing what state this is in. Hopefully by the time all the students out there do have time, I will have a good process set up and we'll get lots of participation!
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-04, 05:22:18 AM
Tony, according to SourceForge's Mercurial documentation
Quote
Users should commit to their project repository using their SourceForge.net username or email address (USERNAME@users.sourceforge.net). Several methods are supported for configuring this, please refer to the Mercurial Documentation for the supported methods.

When you are prompted by tortoiseplink, do you see any indication or place for a user name? Did you set up a user name in your TortoiseHg global settings as shown in the video? Does the capitalization of your user name match the capitalization of your SourceForge user account?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: tprime on 2012-05-04, 11:19:41 AM
Tony, according to SourceForge's Mercurial documentation
Quote
Users should commit to their project repository using their SourceForge.net username or email address (USERNAME@users.sourceforge.net). Several methods are supported for configuring this, please refer to the Mercurial Documentation for the supported methods.

When you are prompted by tortoiseplink, do you see any indication or place for a user name? Did you set up a user name in your TortoiseHg global settings as shown in the video? Does the capitalization of your user name match the capitalization of your SourceForge user account?

I did not set up my email address using the global settings. *facepalm*
But as soon as I used my sourceforge email, I was able to clone the project.
I'll be returning to the video tutorial. :D

And I do not think you will need to make another video for set up, since setting up has been fairly easy (at my current place in the video). Maybe you can add an annotation that lets future viewers know that they will have to set their email first through the global settings.

EDIT: Just realized your video did tell the user how to set your username. Maybe you should have the annotation say: "10:40" to let the viewer know to see that small part of the video first.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-04, 03:52:22 PM
I think I should re-do the video anyway. This one was kind of rough and in the wrong aspect ratio. I should do one that gets everything in the right order and fixes numerous other small things. So did you have to use your SourceForge email address; do you know if simply your SourceForge username alone works?

Maybe I should start a list:
1. Tell user to set up SourceForge user name in Mercurial before doing Clone
2. Set correct aspect ratio for video: 1280x720 (720p)
3. Use Read-Only http link instead of trying read-write ssh link first when requesting hosting
4. Clarify the meaning of each column in the "Reviews" page, and get the links right on the first try
5. Provide a better list of links to useful pages, and use it during the tutorial
6. Remark on making branches from other existing forks
7. Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: tprime on 2012-05-05, 10:29:21 AM
7. Any other suggestions?

Perhaps a quick introduction of what iotaBuildIt is, specifically a few quotes taken from the philosophy section of the site.
It'll give roaming developers an auditory sense of what it is before they actually decide to jump into the project through the video tutorial.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-05, 11:27:15 AM
And do you think it should all be in one video? Introduction, setup and walkthrough of submitting updates?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: durnurd on 2012-05-06, 06:19:56 AM
I am not sure if the following is the best option here, but I thought I'd suggest it in case it is.  When I've made tutorial videos in the past, there was one overview that showed off the overall process and everything major that could be done. Then more detailed videos to go in depth for those sections in which depth may be a useful place to go. You could use annotations during the overview to link to the more detailed videos for that specific part. Of course, this would mean even more videos, but would let people skim through the overall process without necessarily being turned off by the nitty gritty bits until they're committed (i.e. after they "get" your vision from the rest of the overview)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-06, 02:27:33 PM
I made a more useful homepage for frequent visitors and people using the tutorial video at http://iotabuildit.sourceforge.net/ (http://iotabuildit.sourceforge.net/). I figured I should have a better page to refer to while creating the new video. I think this will be it.

Anybody know why the embedded video is disabled and can't be enabled in IE. I assume it's a security restriction. But do other sites have similar problems in IE, or do they have ways around it?

Can anyone tell me if it looks OK in FireFox?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-06, 03:05:59 PM
Looks good in Firefox 12. :)
I hope I'll have time to setup my system next weekend. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-07, 05:16:20 AM
Looks like the reason I couldn't view the embedded video in IE was because I didn't have Flash updated in my 64-bit version of IE. It works fine in the 32-bit version of IE.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: durnurd on 2012-05-08, 06:51:53 AM
A couple of points on the tutorial

You say that you should be able to just double click on the SGDK 2 project file to open it. But if you just downloaded it and extracted the ZIP file, the file association would not be set up yet. I didn't see anywhere you actually set it up beforehand.

You might want to consider (if it's possible) to run through this setup in a more sterile environment, for example on a Virtual PC instance.

The steps to take to get it set up are hard to find and to get through. Placing links in the middle of sentences is not the best option. The Participate link shouldn't be below the fold hidden in a bunch of text people won't read.  You need a nice big button right at the top.


The same is true of the tutorial links. The links should all be right at the front, before the sentence, as nice, obvious things to click.  They could also link more directly to the download pages.

I still think the run button (or a separate button) in the IDE should allowo for running as HTML5, rather than requiring the user export it and then find the file to run. It should also be simple enough to not require the setup dialog that appears when going through the export process.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-08, 11:55:31 AM
1. I think I did demonstrate running the SGDK2 IDE before double-clicking on an SGDK2 file, and running it is what sets up the file association. But I should remark that double-clicking the SGDK2 file only works if you ran SGDK2 first, as I demonstrated.
2. I agree with you 110% about the links, which is why I already did make a new tutorial video based on the new homepage at iotabuildit.sf.net (http://iotabuildit.sf.net) where the links are more handily available. I haven't posted that video yet, though, and will probably re-do it again before I do post it. I need to speak better than I did.

What's the quickest easiest virtual environment, VirtualPC? I haven't used that lately -- can you remind me where to set that up from? Is it still free?

I will have to think more about easier ways to run HTML5 content. I still like having the user review the settings every time they output to HTML5 format because of my desire to confirm where the files are going, and how many there will be. But having it easier to run afterward would be good, like opening the folder where the HTML file was generated or optionally starting that HTML file in the default browser after the export. One of those could be an option on the export dialog.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: durnurd on 2012-05-09, 06:25:51 AM
I'm not suggesting getting rid of the Export to HTML option, but not having to use it while testing would be much simpler.  It would just always export each js file separately and the images embedded.  It could go into a temporary location. Then when you're ready to distribute it, you could use the export option.

As for a virtual, I have recently used Virtual Box.  I think the part you may have to deal with though, is installing an OS.  It may not be worth the effort...
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-09, 07:17:22 PM
Guess what I just discovered. It appears we don't need to deal with the whole hassle of a hosting request! Because there's no server scripting and it's all just client script, it seems to work to link directly to the file within the mercurial source control app provided by SourceForge! This is an amazing and great simplification. I'm very excited. Take a look at this link from my own repository: http://hg.code.sf.net/u/bluemonkmn/myiota/raw-file/bd99939d2275/HTML/iotaBuildIt.html (http://hg.code.sf.net/u/bluemonkmn/myiota/raw-file/bd99939d2275/HTML/iotaBuildIt.html) or this one from the base repository: http://hg.code.sf.net/p/iotabuildit/code/raw-file/408d42e6cd90/HTML/iotaBuildIt.html (http://hg.code.sf.net/p/iotabuildit/code/raw-file/408d42e6cd90/HTML/iotaBuildIt.html). And it hosts all versions... if you go to this address (http://hg.code.sf.net/p/iotabuildit/code/raw-file/027bfcd244c4/HTML/iotaBuildIt.html) also in the base repository, you will see the older version of the world map if you go down when you get to the world map.  I didn't think this would ever work because I assumed that a PHP file (that retrieves the requested file from source control)) would always have to be part of the URL, but somehow Mercurial has integrated with the SourceForge web server to such an extent that all files can simply appear as hosted files on the web, which is exactly what iotaBuildIt needed. Such luck!
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-10, 05:45:29 AM
That's great news! :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-13, 08:10:16 PM
OK, I finally finished the updated tutorial video and posted it on the new iotaBuildIt homepage at http://iotabuildit.sourceforge.net/ (http://iotabuildit.sourceforge.net/). I included a full transcript. I haven't had time to watch the whole thing yet, though.  :-[
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-15, 05:09:24 AM
I think I'm ready to start publicizing the iotaBuildIt project and tutorial video after one more confirmation. Just want to make sure all the steps in the tutorial work for someone besides myself without any complications.  In particular I want to make sure you're able to edit the review page of the Wiki, and define your own page for your modification using the current security settings. So if anyone could confirm that, I can start publicizing.  No rush, but that's the next step I think.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-17, 03:44:40 PM
I'll definitely try now. I'm free of school..... oh my gosh, like a giant stone, removed from my back..... So much spare time to be left to my thoughts.... (and IotaBuildIt)

Scratch that- sourceforge isn't allowing me to register, as it needs a domain name for my username, and I don't have one moins que 15 characters long.

It may be the wrong place to ask for help, but does anyone have any ideas? Tinyurl is still too long apparently for registration.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-17, 09:02:37 PM
I don't understand. Username is just a unique name of your choosing, all lowercase, that doesn't conflict with anybody else's username. What makes you think a domain is involved? Mine is bluemonkmn.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-17, 09:05:59 PM
I was able to get past it. They demanded a name because they needed something like username.sourceforge.net.

The name that I had tried to get had some capital letters in it.

I should also add, there should be a link to IotaBuildIt on the main page of the website, and if it's there, I missed it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-17, 09:23:24 PM
Confirmed. Delete my page if you wish. I may use that one as my actual modification page, but I may actually make a new one as the time goes on.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-18, 05:13:19 AM
I should also add, there should be a link to IotaBuildIt on the main page of the website, and if it's there, I missed it.

What is a "link to IotaBuildIt"? Do you mean a link to play an incomplete version of the game?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-18, 11:19:25 AM
I should also add, there should be a link to IotaBuildIt on the main page of the website, and if it's there, I missed it.

What is a "link to IotaBuildIt"? Do you mean a link to play an incomplete version of the game?

Something that allows ease of access to the wiki and information areas, but a link to an incomplete version could also be nice.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-18, 01:15:15 PM
OK, the very first button at http://iotabuildit.sf.net/ (http://iotabuildit.sf.net/) links to the wiki homepage. It was already there -- did you miss it, or am I misunderstanding what you're suggesting?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-18, 02:25:52 PM
I wasn't clear, sorry, I meant a link from the SGDK2 website. But I'll bookmark the Iotabuild it page.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-18, 04:38:35 PM
Ah, well, I didn't want to link it too publicly until we had a chance to confirm that everything looked roughly OK, but I think that time has come so I will start announcing iotaBuildIt.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-20, 06:52:27 AM
Hey bluemonkmn,

I followed your new tutorial video: opened a sourceforge account, set up TortoiseHG, got a local copy, made modifications, checked in my modifications, etc.  I had no problem following the video: very easy to understand.  Great stuff!  So I decided to make the first modifications I would like to see in IotaBuildIt: new tile category, different main player movement...

But then I encountered a problem: when I generate the HTML5 project, it doesn't work.  I tried with various settings: nada.  I thought that maybe my modifications caused the problems, so I reverted to the original IotaBuildIt sgdk2 file to export in HTML5: same problem.  I thought that maybe only local HTML5 files cause problems since the original IotaBuiltIt.html file works online (hard to believe but I wanted to rule everything out).  So I pushed my changes and tried them remotely: same thing.

My version of SGDK2 was downloaded yesterday (I wanted a clean install), version 2.2.3.  And the exact problem is: the export operation works fine, doesn't give any error, etc.  But when I open the html file, all I see is the blue background of the tutorial map.  Nothing else shows up, nothing moves, etc.  I tried it in a clean Chrome and a clean FireFox 12 (downloaded and installed them both yesterday too).   I don't get any javascript error, it's like the export operation wasn't properly completed.  Oh, by the way, the exe works just fine.

Can you download my project and test it on your end to see if you get the same behavior? 
My sourceforge repo (RO access):
http://hg.code.sf.net/u/vincent1111111/iotavincent

It's too bad, I really wanted to make the complete loop, submit my changes, get a review, etc.  Oh well, that's the point of testing the whole process I guess.  I'll ask for a review when the HTML5 export works on my end.

Thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-21, 05:15:09 AM
Ai yai yai! I forgot to publish some of the changes to SGDK2 -- I just uploaded/published SGDK 2.2.4. Could you see if that corrects the problems?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-21, 07:24:17 AM
Hum, no.  Sorry, same result.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-21, 01:43:16 PM
I see the same results as you. When I run your code from the tip of your repository, I get a non-scrolling blue rectangle, but if I play the previous revision, it works fine. Can you figure out how to revert your workspace to the previous version, so all your local files are at revision 408d42e6cd90. Your repository will still have revision af3578b8f497 in it, but your files will reflect the state from 408d42e6cd90. (Sorry I can't be much help at the moment because I don't have TortoiseHg handy, and I'm not terriby experienced yet; I can look further when I get a chance if you need more help.)

Then try to load that version of the project into your SGDK2 and export the HTML5 code with all separate files. This should show you if SGDK2 is exporting the same code that is in source control or not. After you have exported them, you can use TortoiseHg to compare or commit your changes (on a separate branch I think) to see if SGDK2 is generating different output on your system than it is on my system.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-21, 02:18:41 PM
I think I discovered the source of the problem (and shame on me as someone who develops international software at work for ignoring it in SGDK2). I think the problem happens because your system uses "," as the decimal separator. If you look at your changes to iotaBuildIt.js (http://hg.code.sf.net/u/vincent1111111/iotavincent/diff/af3578b8f497/HTML/iotaBuildIt.js) you will see that many "." characters in my version were replaced my "," characters in your version. Can you (at least temporarily) change your regional and language settings so that your system uses "." as the decimal separator (and "," as the thousands separator) and then regenerate the HTML5 code?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-22, 05:06:20 AM
I built a version of SGDK2IDE that uses "invariant" culture settings for the duration of generating HTML5 code. I'd like you to test it before I release it:
http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/SGDK2IDE.7z (http://sgdk2.enigmadream.com/ben/SGDK2IDE.7z)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-22, 06:14:46 AM
Oh sorry, I'm late, I didn't see your last messages.  I'll try this tonight if I have the time. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-22, 03:06:45 PM
Hehe!  Works perfectly now! :)
http://hg.code.sf.net/u/vincent1111111/iotavincent/raw-file/2350a428281c/HTML/iotaBuildIt.html

Now, to submit a code review. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-22, 03:21:41 PM
Done!  You can see my review request in SourceForge.  Awaiting comments. :)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-22, 08:12:44 PM
I posted a comment on your review page. Are you subscribed to it? Did it notify you? If not, do you see how to subscribe?

I see a label on the Reviews page: "review request for new player controls and slippery tiles (1)". I'm not familiar with this feature. Did you do something to apply that label? Any idea what it accomplishes?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-23, 05:50:15 AM
Hey bluemonkmn!

Hum, no I didn't see there was a way to subscribe to the review page.  It wasn't obvious. :)  Well, now I subscribed to it, I guess I should receive notifications. 

Oh yeah, the label.  I didn't think it would be displayed in the page directly. I thought it was just a way to describe the change in the history of the page.  But it seems it's a tool for searching.  I'll remove it since it's not useful.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-23, 05:58:24 AM
Oh by the way, I answered your comment on sourceforge.  Did you get a notification?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-23, 10:57:08 AM
Yep
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-23, 12:04:13 PM
In order to get more hype, maybe advertise this on TIGSource? It's a great way to get a large amount of people.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-23, 01:23:37 PM
I hadn't heard of TIGSource before, but it sounds/looks like a good idea. Since this is a collaborative project, is that something you have the ability to do? Go for it if you're up for it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-23, 02:21:30 PM
I would, but I'm not sure if there was extra information I had to add that you may have wanted to add.
I also didn't want to be credited for this, even if I post that it was yours, the topic started by me would mean all IotaBuildit questions would be directed to me.

TIGSource is The Indie Gamer Source. A large amount of indie game developers have conversations there and present their own work.

http://tigsource.com
More specifically:
http://forums.tigsource.com/

I'm figuring that you could answer the bulk of the questions, as well as taking credit for it.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-23, 04:55:16 PM
I will have to spend some time coming up with a good post. Rather than rush it, remind me later if I forget to announce it there later :).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-23, 05:26:38 PM
I will have to spend some time coming up with a good post. Rather than rush it, remind me later if I forget to announce it there later :).

Done.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-25, 05:08:22 AM
I posted on TIGSource, but not no buzz yet. Think the post is descriptive enough?
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: Vincent on 2012-05-25, 05:28:20 AM
Crowdsource joke on this friday morning:
http://xkcd.com/1060/
:)
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-25, 08:37:20 AM
I posted on TIGSource, but not no buzz yet. Think the post is descriptive enough?

If the game doesn't get buzz you should try it in the Feedback area. A great deal of developers had initially posted there in order to get people hyped up (Seeing has how most people are critics who want to watch a YouTube video only and THEN give their two cents)

A good strategy is to post a YouTube video in feedback and ask what others believe of the game.

After getting people riled up there, the announcement topic might be bumped back a page or two. I'll post supportive comments to bump it back up to top priority.
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-25, 09:05:46 AM
Thanks for yet another suggestion. I have posted in the feedback area (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=26229.0).
Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: v6v on 2012-05-25, 09:33:10 AM
I was looking at the YouTube video, and noticed that not only do you have an IotaBuildIt ad (Looks nice), but you also seem to have a large amount of people supporting IotaBuildIt from the comments and likes... is TigSource the first place you've advertised this or were all of the feedback comments on YouTube from SGDK forum members?

Title: Re: The Crowdsourced Game
Post by: bluemonkmn on 2012-05-25, 10:04:22 AM
The comments and likes were there before I posted on TIGSource. I ran an adwords/youtube video advertising campaign from Saturday through Tuesday, which got a lot of attention to the video. I had a $50 credit in my adwords account (from a free promition) and used $20 of it for this. Seems to have worked well.

What I find interesting/odd/nice is that I think the only way to get that link panel at the bottom of the beginning of the video is via the advertising interface, and it didn't go away when the ad campaign ended.