Scrolling Game Development Kit Forum

for some reason, it wont let me edit my post above.

Anyways, im relinking posting the script since I have fixed a few bugs.  I tried to add a few more features (Axis lock and tile snap) but it seems to be impossible to do from script since the darn engine always overwrites any changes to the mouse position every frame.  I guess we've lived without these features for this long and noone's seemed to complain, I guess we can live without em some more.

I thought of some other stuff like hotkey tile or tilematch selecting but that stuff can wait 

Good point.

I agree with getting a complete working version up and running as soon as possible.  One thing I hope you do, however, is have a long running beta, call it a beta so you don't always have to worry about backwords compatibility (keeping old projects working on the new version)   when adding features and changing stuff.  (i imagine this could be a time consuming  problem, but maybe you have a simple way of doing it)

I'd hate to get stuck with something that everyone agrees is less than what it can be, but noone wants to change since they don't want to go through the hassle of manually updating their current project.

Some specs on the map file format would be really appreciated so I can write a conversion utility...

The things I find difficult about the built-in map editor are listed below.  These aren't criticisms but simply things that don't fit my personal preferences:

1. The only major problem I have is not having both the map and the tiles on the same screen.  It makes map-making very tiresome.

2. A small problem that could be solved easily is having to right-click and then choose the "copy" facility.  A keyboard shortcut for this would be a huge improvement.

3. I would prefer it if the map didn't scroll when I move the mouse to the screen edge.  I don't know about anyone else but I'd much rather use the keyboard for scrolling (which I know you can do but you can't de-activate mouse scrolling).

I might just have to get  used to the map editor, SGDK is great in every other way and there's not really much competition...

A conversion utility would be possible, but probably not worth the effort.  If you are really interested, SGDK is open source so you could probably just look at the .Save method of the Map class module (Map.mod)  You don't even need VB 6 to do this as I believe .mod files are text based.

If all you're worried about is tile placement, all that is is a 2d byte array for every layer.   you could possibly use a different utility to place tiles (make sure 2d grid is same size as layer)  and if they are in the correct format, you could paste them into an xml file where the tile byte array is.  If they aren't in correct format, a utility to reformat the array might be easier to make than a whole file conversion.  This would take some pretty serious testing, but its worth a try.


Also, with a design time script, I think you could do 2 and 3 pretty easy, but 1 would be somewhat difficult and would probably be beyond the power of a design time script.  I'd try to make the design time script for you, but I'm making leaps and bounds of progress on a game and don't want to lose momentum.

here is an example design time script: (edited from bluemonk's original creation distributed with SGDK)
' This is a generic map editing template script
' It connects to the map editor whenever it comes up.
' To customize the script to your own purpose, edit
' the second section (script number 1) in this file.

' ======== INITIAL STARTUP SCRIPT (Number 0) =========
Sub Project_OnEditMap(M)
   Set HostObj.TempStorage = M
   HostObj.StartScript=1
End Sub

HostObj.SinkObjectEvents ProjectObj, "Project"

HostObj.ConnectEventsNow()

#Split == MAP EDITING SCRIPT (Number 1) ============

Dim Rndm,totalclearcount
Dim MpEd
Set MpEd = HostObj.TempStorage
HostObj.TempStorage = Empty

Sub MapEd_OnEditInit()
   Rndm=false
   MpEd.DisplayMessage = "Map editing script connected, use" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf & "F-frame," & vbCrLf & "A-All" & vbCrLf & _
     "C- Clear = " & vbCrLf & "4-left" & vbCrLf & "6-right" & vbCrLf & "8-up" & vbCrLf & "2-down"
End Sub

Sub MapEd_OnKeyPress(KeyAscii)
   Dim TileWid, TileHgt
   Dim Tmr, TmOut
   'Dim Lyr0Dat, Lyr1Dat, Lyr2Dat,clear,totalclear
   dim LyrDat, LyrBelowDat
   Dim IntTemp
   dim YStart, YEnd, XStart, XEnd, PerformScan, SolidityChange
   'On Error Resume Next

   'MpEd.disp.drawtext keyascii & " " & mped.editmode,20,20

   If MpEd.EditMode >=9 Then Exit Sub

   TmOut=8
   HostObj.ScriptTimeOutSeconds = TmOut + .5

   TileHgt = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).TSDef.TileHeight
   TileWid = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).TSDef.TileWidth
   'Set Lyr0Dat = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Data
   'Set Lyr1Dat = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(1).Data
   'Set Lyr2Dat = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(2).Data
   set LyrDat = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(MpEd.EditLayer).Data
   
   clear=false
   If KeyAscii = Asc("f") Then 'frame only
     YStart = Int(MpEd.YOff / TileHgt)
     YEnd = Int((MpEd.YOff+MpEd.theMap.ViewHeight) / TileHgt)- 1
     XStart = Int(MpEd.XOff / TileWid)
     XEnd = Int((MpEd.XOff+MpEd.theMap.ViewWidth) / TileWid)- 1
     PerformScan = true
clear =false
   'elseif keyascii = Asc("a") then 'all of layer
   '  YStart = 0
   '  YEnd = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Rows-2 '54
   '  Xstart = 0
   '  Xend = MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Columns-1
   '  PerformScan = true
   ' clear =false
   elseIf KeyAscii = Asc("c") Then 'clear
     YStart = Int(MpEd.YOff / TileHgt)
     YEnd = Int((MpEd.YOff+MpEd.theMap.ViewHeight) / TileHgt)- 1
     XStart = Int(MpEd.XOff / TileWid)
     XEnd = Int((MpEd.XOff+MpEd.theMap.ViewWidth) / TileWid)- 1
     PerformScan = true
     clear = true
   elseif keyascii = asc("6") then
     if MpEd.XOff+640<(MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Columns-21)*32 then
       MpEd.XOff=MpEd.XOff+640
     else
       MpEd.XOff=(MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Columns-20)*32
     end if
   elseif keyascii = asc("4") then
     if MpEd.XOff-640>0 then
       MpEd.XOff=MpEd.XOff-640
     else
       MpEd.XOff=0
     end if
   elseif keyascii = asc("2") then
     if MpEd.YOff+480<(MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Rows-16)*32 then
       MpEd.YOff=MpEd.YOff+480
     else
       MpEd.YOff=(MpEd.theMap.MapLayer(0).Rows-15)*32
     end if
   elseif keyascii = asc("8") then
     if MpEd.YOff-480>0 then
       MpEd.YOff=MpEd.YOff-480
     else
       MpEd.YOff=0
     end if
   else
     PerformScan = false
   end if
   
   if PerformScan = true then
     if clear=true then
       For Y=ystart to yend
         For X = xstart to xend
           select case lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)
             case 25,222
               lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=0
           end select
         next
       next
     else
       For Y=ystart to yend
         For X = xstart to xend

              Select Case LyrDat.TileValue(X,Y)
                Case 208,209,210,211,216,217,218,219 'draw cave faces from sides
                  'xend=0/0
                  select case lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y+1)
                    case 201, 220, 221, 228, 229,208,209,210,195,198,206,192,193,194
                      'nothing
                    case else
                      lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y+1)=lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)+8
                  end select
                case 1
                  select case left(MpEd.theMap.Name,3)
                    'case "Cav"
                    '  lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=222
                    'case "Twn"
                    '  lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=25
                    case "Cst"
                      lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=111
                  end select
                 
                case 0 'draw ground on blank tiles
                  select case left(MpEd.theMap.Name,3)
                    case "Cav"
                      lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=222
                    case "Twn"
                      lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=25
                    case "Cst"
                      lyrdat.tilevalue(x,y)=111
                  end select
                Case Else
              End Select
              'If Err.Number <>0 Then Exit For
           Next
             'If Err.Number <>0 Then Exit For
        Next
     end if
     'If Err.Number <> 0 Then MpEd.DisplayMessage = Err.Description
   End If
'        Tmr = Timer
'
'     If Err.Number <> 0 Then MpEd.DisplayMessage = Err.Description
'     If Timer-Tmr > TmOut Then MpEd.DisplayMessage = "Script Timeout at tile " & X & "," & Y
'     HostObj.ScriptTimeOutSeconds = 2
'     End If
End Sub

Sub MapEd_OnEditComplete()
   HostObj.StartScript=0
End Sub

HostObj.SinkObjectEvents HostObj.AsObject(MpEd), "MapEd"
HostObj.ConnectEventsNow()
To link it, make a shortcut for the command insert this into the "Target" of the shortcuts properties:
"C:\Program Files\GameDev\gamedev.exe" "[.gdp full path]" /e "[script.vbs full path]"
(note im using the default gamdev.exe path, change as necessary)

Orion, yes I did forget about that while writing that post.  I have used it quite a bit.  One problem I ran into with it though is when I want to delete the sprite and activate and EOP function it won't quite behave how I wanted, my EOP function activates a series, one of which is a "delete sprite" but deletes the last one made not the one that is at the end of its path. (any way around this, i cant think of one).  Also, I wish the was a OSR_[SpriteName] (On sprite remove) which activates a functions of that name just before a sprite is removed no matter what the reason for the removal.  I think i mentioned this in another post, and this is the SGDK2 thread so Ill quit talking about it 

]Every sprite instance that can exist must be defined at design time.  You can't create an unlimited number of a certain type of sprite.  (However, you will be able to "Activate next inactive sprite in category" to achieve a similar effect)

Right now I am working on a game that has 1 "Initial instance" spite, the player.  All other sprites are created by tile interactions and special functions, and those with paths are always "follow path relative to starting point".   This is mainly to make sprite creation as easy as tile placement (looks like your doing this "out of the box" in SGDK 2.  Would be nice to have an options for when to activate sprites: "When playersprite comes within 500 pixels", "At beginning of Map", "When player collides with sprite", "On Rule ACT_[SpriteDef]*"

Anyways, I can see how dynamic sprites would still be possible with the system you described in the quote above, but will we still have as much freedom with dynamic sprites?  Can we still change properties of sprites or definitions at run-time via "Script" or otherwise? (I like to change anything and everything at run-time, Especially graphics)


And on Paths.  I have an idea just come to me, take it or leave it.  Since you will have path points, special functions, Sprite Instance starting points, and now areas.  Maybe to make map creation easier you should just allow the creation of "Points" in the Map GUI.  They would have names, and an X and Y and be indexed by the layer.  They could be used for anything: Path Points, Special function corners, Sprite instance start positions, and area corners.  When making them in the map editor you could type the name and start clicking and it would auto-update the name for you at each point "EnemyPath00,EnemyPath01...."  You could also have buttons to "Create Path from last points of same name", Create Area from last 2 points", etc, that would either auto-create or open the appropriate dialog so you could edit the newly created object.

Some benefits of this method include: The ability to edit individual path points easier and append path points, the ability to edit locations of areas easier, easier way to select destination of "teleport player" special function, easier way to implement "move tiles" special functions

The real benefit would come for being able to select these points "by name" from any other dialog where appropriate: Sprite Instance/Definition for rules or path locations, Special function/Rule/Area for areas of functions or targets (Transport, move tiles, etc).  They could also be used for easy map navigation in the design GUI, have drop-box "Scroll to Point...."

A huge list of points could become unruly and difficult to navigate so you could "hide" points after you make the appropriate path, area, etc.  So the list only contains what you want it to contain (the stuff you are working on, the most recent stuff" with an options to "view hidden points" available.
Another problem might be for novices that want to make paths and area "the old fashion way", but you could still keep those options available, an just auto-name and auto-hide the points of paths and areas made in this manner.

Also, I'm not sure how you would implement it, but having "relative points" might be a good idea as well.  "Left of, Right of, Ballistic projectile series01, Ballistic projectile series02, TopLeft of screen. etc"  These would all be useful for things like shooting players, shooting enemies.  Some of these could be pre-defined as well.  Might make things easier to select points by name rather than having to worry about coordinates at every level of design (especially for those new to the kit )"

...Steps off soapbox. 

Also, thanks for keeping us involved in this process.  Hopefully we all get a better engine and development environment out of it. 

well, i dont know about midis, but wavs are better than mp3's because when you loop them they dont have that 1/2 a second of silence at teh end (or however big it is)

I'm kind of a noob on wav's.  The only ones I've ever dealt with are when ripping a cd and getting a large 30+meg file for a few minutes of audio.  Without knowing anythng more, the only place I would use waves in a gamedev project would be quick <2 second sound effects.  Any large files that would be looped (background music) I would most likely have as midi, or possibly mp3.

An option for good sound quality is to release 2 versions of the game, 1 with wav's and 1 with mp3's and midis.  One would be a massive download, and the other would be more manageable but with less quality of sound.

Yeah, both the sprite additions and/or adding another event would destroy any hope for backwards compatibility.  If i ever find the motivation to do it I probably will, although my solution might not be as elegant and i may not even attempt to offer backwards compatibility.

I couldn't recreate the "overflow" hard crash, which occurred when adding tiles to a tile animation.  I did recreate a slight problem when renaming a special function it won't auto update the name in the "If save exists" list-box of the Save/Load Game option if the renamed function was selected before.  Pretty minor problem as I don't think this particular special function is used that often, let alone its target renamed.

oops sorry


   You know, for all I've played that game, and for how much I like game design, suprisingly, I haven't messed with the map editor all that much.  I started to make a single player campaign, but never finished it and probably lost it.  I have also edited other maps I have downloaded to make them more playable, but that's where my experience with it stops.

You should zip up some maps you created and post em   I would be interested in playing some fresh maps.

On a side note.  I still have a couple hundred maps from when I first started playing up to now.  Sure most of them suck, or are near identical copies, but thats ok.  I always remember to back them up every time I have reformated.