SGDK2 - Working wiith a team

[TheLaw]

Hey, I've a question. If I had a team of guys building a game with this, how would we do it? There's no way to load import/load maps into a project.

Cause I want other team members to frame in the maps and set objects, then I'd like to go in and be the one to make them come alive.

Sorry if I've missed something obvious here, I'm trying to get us up and running with something rather quickly, and I'm looking at a few API's/Kits/Engines. - so I haven't looked deep into it. If I could get this figured out I'd probably use SGDK2.

Also, just quickly, for me if you will, how customizeable is this kit?. Pretty easy to add your own AI for enemies and such thru script? We have a pretty elaborate battle system planned.

Thanks, and sorry to be kinda needy and pushy. I've had a rough day of failure with another kit I was settled on. Now I'm behind and have to find something good get back working fast!

[Vincent]

Hi TheLaw,

There is no implemented "user friendly" way to import/export a layer, but since the SGDK2 project file is made in XML, it's very easy to just copy and paste the XML in another project file.  As long as you know exactly what you need to transfer.  I've done it a couple of times, it's not that hard, the XML tags are well identified.

About the "customizability" of this kit, it's impressive!  Since all the source code is provided with the kit, you can modify anything you want.  The current version (2.1) of SGDK2 is using OpenGL and C#.  C# is easy to use and very reliable.  When you generate the project, all your stuff is converted into C# classes and you can actually run and debug your project using Visual Studio for example.  You can extend the kit as much as you want.  I didn't try to open the project in Visual Studio, but some guys around here did.  I didn't do it, because I never had a use for it, since the tools provided with the kit suited my needs until now.  I have extended the kit and made some custom functions in my projects and it works like a charm.

If you want to create simple code for the elements of your game, there is a lot of predefined rules to make your life easier.  But if you want something more complex, you can create custom rules with C# classes and it works fine.  The AI in my game is implemented using only the preset rules.  You can start out using the preset rules and when it becomes too complex to manage, you can convert your rules into C# code to make it easier.  (durnurd in this forum could help you achieve that, you could ask him, it seems quite easy).

I hope it answers your questions.  If you have other questions, don't hesitate to ask!

[TheLaw]

Thank-you sir! That's the best news I've heard all day!
   I've been comparing this to Novashell, today. Since I'm fairly handy with C++ (not afraid to code) I figured this would be the best fit for us. Just have to get into c#, which is no big. What about a GUI, can you summon common windows dialogs (to open a file, etc), ...or even use the native GUI elements (esp. in full screen)? Thanks for the XML tip, I try to stay away from XML as much as I can, but it gives me hope!

Thanks!

[Vincent]

My pleasure!

Absolutely possible to use common windows GUI.  As I said, when you generate the project, everything is converted in C# classes.  It is compiled in .Net framework, so anything available in the .NET framework can be used.  The basic project has 3 windows forms.  One for the game, one for customizing controls and one for the "about" information on your program.  If you want to create new forms or dialogs, you can create them and add them into your project just like any other C# classes.  If you want to extend the forms already provided with the project, it's very easy too!  Most (if not all) of the C# classes that make the kit are partial classes.  So you can extend the code without even touching the source files, which makes it easy to upgrade to the next versions of SGDK2: you don't need to modify your code.

If you plan to run the game in fullscreen (without windows form menu and such), you can still summun GUI elements using custom functions.  You won't find native rules to do so, but if you are experienced in C++, you will find it very easy to do so in C#.

For the XML part, the project files can become quite big.  If you want a easier time managing the XML project files, I recommend you give a look to XML Notepad 2007.  It's from Microsoft, it's free, uses a graphic interface to manage the XML and very easy to use.  Here's the link to download it:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=72d6aa49-787d-4118-ba5f-4f30fe913628&displaylang=en

Again, feel free to ask any other questions!

[TheLaw]

Thanks and of course I have more questions!
   First, I gather the purpose of the 2.1 release was to use OpenGL and go mult-iplatform. The 2.1 release is kinda flaky on my machine - it doesn't run in full screen for me. So is the older 2.0 the same minus OpenGL and multi-platform? I don't wanna miss out on any cool enhancements, but 2.0 works better for me and windows only is OK with us.
   Second, The GUI bit has me concerned in full screen. You never see windows native GUI in full screen, so I wonder if a small example exists or some documentation exists somewhere that I've missed. Since we're making a RPG, a GUI is of great use to me. So any help in this area is valuable stuff to me! If you were to say that it's just way simpler in windowed mode I'd believe you, and stay away from full screen! The only thing I've seen for using windows native GUI in full screen is here:

http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/


Thank you so much for all your help so far today. I feel much calmer now!

[Jam0864]

The 2.1 release was pretty important... here's the release notes.

Version 2.1 of Scrolling Game Development Kit includes many large updates and enhancements. The biggest is perhaps the switch to OpenGL, which has already demonstrated promise for being able to port the program the the games created with it to Linux (although more friendly support for this is yet to come). For more detail, refer to this complete list of notable updates and features:1. Upgrade to .NET 2.0: SGDK2 and the projects it generates now rely on .NET Framework version 2.0 and take advantage of new features added in this version. The SGDK2 Project itself requires Visual C# 2008 or .NET 3.0 to compile, but can run on any system that has .NET Framework 2.0. It also knows how to compile game projects on any system with .NET 2.0.2. OpenGL Framework: Version 2.0 was based on Managed DirectX. SGDK 2.1 uses the OpenTK library to access the OpenGL interface to video hardware, allowing SGDK2 and the projects created with it to potentially be more easily ported to other platforms. This also provided an apparent significant performance boost.3. Improved Message Functions: Displaying messages is now an integrated function in SGDK2 instead of a custom object. Furthermore, it now uses a tileset as the font instead of using the font support provided by the system. This means that you can use graphics and animated tiles/characters in your messages. A new message preview window is provided to assist in laying out the message at design time.4. Frame Rate Limit: If your game runs too fast on some systems, you can now use the LimitFrameRate function to control the speed.5. Cut Rules: It's now possible to cut a group of rules when using a rule editor. This can also be used to delete hierarchies of rules.6. Upgrade Documentation: This help file is now being built with Sandcastle and Sandcastle Help File Builder instead of NDOC because NDOC did not support .NET 2.0. As a result the build process is somewhat simplified and the content is better linked, among other improvements.7. Implement ability to convert rules to functions: Sprite Rules and Plan rules can now be converted to functions in custom code objects that can be called with a single rule and edited in the code editor.8. Implement ability to create sprites from templates using a pop-up menu from the new command (based on templates in the library, which you're free to expand and share by exporting your own templates).9. Implement ability to call sprite functions from plan rules.10. Upgrade to FMOD stable release 4.20.06.

[TheLaw]

Thanks Jam0864, I knew such a release note existed, I'd seen it before! Sorry, I couldn't locate it today. Just wish it would run full screen for me! Guess I'm left with another decision to make! I'm still waiting on a response about the native GUI in full screen. If that's not possible/easy enough, then I suppose that 2.1 - windowed - is the clear winner for me.

Anyone interested in joining our team? We've put together a crude website with a bit of what we're up to;

http://malachi-rpg.weebly.com/

You can ignore all the Playgound/PlayFirst stuff that is on the site. That's not going over too good for me! We're almost set on attempting
our game with SGDK. Were still on the hunt for a sprite artist. Still lots of programming to do I'm sure.  ...Also, if anyone can say our goals are set
too high for this kit to handle, or predict any stones in our road, I'd like to hear about them!

[v6v]

hey man, if you need music or high end polished 2D animated sprites, im your guy {unless you already have one} For music, i need the FL studio patch... but if its in sgdk2, ive got it covered!

[TheLaw]

Yes sir, we really do need 2d sprites for our game! Music too, but, perhaps not if we get permission to use some of the music we have from the net. (got one so far!) We'd love to have some more help with level design too. Nobody in our team has an artists touch!

If we make it with SGDK, our chances of publishing with PlayFirst may go out the window! ...But we're still hopeful that someone will pick us up. Hope you read the "How we pay!" section of our site tho!

I still have to have a good sit down with this kit, 'cause I'm not so sure we can accomplish all of our goals with it.
So, as far as the game goes, we have the story, and we've settled on what we want, but as the programmer I'm still looking for a place
to happen (makin' stops along the way!)

If you're still interested, you can write me an email or add me to your msn at porkchop__2@hotmail.com  From there it'd be nice to have you on msn messenger with the rest of the talent. The other guys can get you excited about what our story has to offer. They have some real meat and potatoes lined up!

Great to hear from you,
Thanks,
Lawrence.

[Vincent]

Well, it would seem that I was a little overenthusiastic... 
 I could not get to make a GUI dialog in a fullscreen mode with SGDK 2.0.

But I've got a GUI example in window mode if you want.  I'm attaching the project file to this post.  It's ugly, but it is not a bad example.  Could be simplified a lot, but I've got little time to spend on this.  Maybe Bluemonkmn or Durnurd could pull this off in fullscreen mode.

But, if fullscreen mode is not a necessity, I would definitely go with SGDK2.1 rather than SGDK2.0.

[TheLaw]

Hahha. Yeah, Vincent - I thought so! You don't see windows native GUI very often in full screen, it's usually custom and I've written a few. They take some time to do properly, and I was wondering if there was a get outta jail free card with this kit, but I highly doubt it.

Thank you so much for your example tho. Windowed mode could be alright I suppose.

Geesh, this a great community here!

[TheLaw]

Hey, Vincent, would your example be for the old 2.0? I get a bunch of:

c:\Documents and Settings\ME\Desktop\SGDK\Library\Projects\GUIdemo\LayerBase.cs(7,17) : error CS0234: The type or namespace name 'DirectX' does not exist in the namespace 'Microsoft' (are you missing an assembly reference?)

I see DirectX in there, and I know 2.1 is all OpenGL...

[Vincent]

Yes, I made the example with 2.0 since you said you were not planning to use the 2.1 version.
If you want, I can translate it to 2.1 when I get the time.

[TheLaw]

Thanks for making it! Yeah, I've decided to go 2.1 windowed and use windows GUI. I was able to look around your example (with our running if of course) and It looked to me like you had some sort of custom job going on. I didn't see you using the windows gui anywhere (which is what I'm interested in) So if I'm right and you did a custom jobbie, then I think I have a rough idea of what you're up to. But if there is a call to some native windows gui in there I'd love to be able to see it work and learn from it. If I was to see a line or two of c# code that makes some kinda "hello world" box pop up and get an idea where I'd put this code I'd be well on my way I think. So, no, I don't want you to spend anymore of your time on it, if I can help it!

Thanks. I appreciate you taking time to help me!
P.S Man those .XML files are ugly! Any details/tips on that? I want 3 guys banging off levels all day, and I'm going to have to merge all this work in at the end of the day. So I'm gonna have to get good at it! I'm not lost completely! I can see the tags, I just don't know what would go where.

[Jam0864]

You could write a quick program to automatically copy XML data across to your main project if you're going to be doing it often.