Author Topic: Project Listing User Ratings  (Read 12387 times)

bluemonkmn

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Project Listing User Ratings
« on: 2006-02-13, 08:42:52 AM »
The user ratings in the project listing are clearly being abused (and probably have been all along).  I advise everyone to ignore the ratings until I can disable or fix them.  I have reset the number of ratings to 1 for all games that had user ratings.  I will continue to do so if necessary until the problem is resolved.

Orion Pax

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #1 on: 2006-02-14, 01:37:39 AM »
Yea, I think its been abused for a long time (on some projects away) but its definatly gotten out of hands lately.  400 votes yet only 15 downloads? With some of the Guildhall games I thought they may get from another source but that doesnt account for everything... people are clearly stat padding their own work. It's been getting worse and I'm glad the votes were reset. Some of the older games had inflated scores, voted on in a time when there wasn't much comparison and not voted on much since.

What are your thoughts on fixing it, IP based, cookie based, account based, or some combination? Account based would mean less votes. IP and Cookie can be used together as the next best thing though no method is fool proof, it's a matter of making it more trouble than its worth but keeping it accessable to real voters. I don't know how much control you have on sourceforge with the listings. You could always move it if need be though. I happen to own a little monkey with extensive databases coding skills as well as web hosting capabilities  ;)

I'm rather interested in user opinions/popularity if they are in fact legitiment statistics. If the system could be overhauled then the addition of catigories... sound/gfx/etc are nice as well as a weighted system based on date/ score in the past __ months as well as overal. Too bad more don't fill out the comment field.


...

little database coding monkey and regaurdless of what he may say I volonteer his services. The more feedback to game authors the better. Too bad more don't fill out the comment field.

bluemonkmn

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #2 on: 2006-02-14, 07:49:06 AM »
I did manage to disable user ratings this morning.  I was able to allow ratings to be provided along with comments while preventing an aggregate rating (and thus the temptation for vote stuffing).  This is hopefully a temporary measure.  I contacted the author of the PHP code behind the listing to see if he was interested in fixing it.  If not, maybe we can talk to your "monkey" :).  I don't think we'd need a separate host, SourceForge is pretty open about configuring/creating databases and running PHP code, so I don't think we'd hit any limitations where we'd need to host elsewhere.  I could probably do this myself, but I don't really want to take the time out and implement an inferior solution.  I don't really know the best solution to this problem, so I'm open to suggestions/implementations from those in the know.  I was considering just logging IP addresses for all votes instead of only the comments.  But I don't want to waste time trying to implement that myself if there might be a better solution... or if someone else might be willing to do it for me :).

durnurd

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #3 on: 2006-02-14, 07:54:39 PM »
SQL Table:

Code: [Select]
CREATE TABLE votes (
   ip VARCHAR(16) NOT NULL,
   fkGameID SMALLINT UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
   score TINYINT UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
   PRIMARY KEY (ip, fkGameID)
);

PHP Code to add a vote:

Code: [Select]
$GameID = $_Post['GameID']     //However you want to get the ID
$Vote = $_GET['Vote'];            //And however you want to get the Vote Number
mysql_select_db($database_SGDK, $SGDK);   //And however you want to select the database

$query = "SELECT fkGameID FROM votes WHERE fkGameID = " . $GameID . " AND ip = '" . $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] . "'";

$result = mysql_query($query, $SGDK);
$rowCount = mysql_num_rows($result);
mysql_free_result($result);

if ($rowCount == 0) {
   $query = "INSERT INTO votes VALUES('" . $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] . "', " . $GameID . ", " . $Vote . ")";
   $result = mysql_query($query, $SGDK);
} else {
   $query = "UPDATE votes SET score=" . $VOTE . " WHERE fkGameID = " . $GameID . " AND ip = '" . $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] . "'";
   $result = mysql_query($query, $SGDK);
}
mysql_free_result($result);

PHP Code to get the average:
Code: [Select]
  $query = "Select AVG(score) from votes WHERE fkGameID = " . $GameID;
  $GetScore = mysql_query($query, $SGDK);
  $score = mysql_fetch_assoc($GetScore);
  mysql_free_result($GetScore);
  echo (round(floatval($score["AVG(score)"]),2));

This worked for me.  The possibility is there for adding comments to the Vote table.
Edward Dassmesser

bluemonkmn

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #4 on: 2006-02-16, 07:37:06 AM »
OK, the ratings are back online.  I deleted all ratings and re-added the ratings that were stored in comments, so right now the only ratings in the system are those that were attached to comments.  Everyone, feel free to go rate the projects according to your opinions now again.  I haven't thoroughly tested the process, but it seems to work and reduce the potential for abuse.  Post a reply here if you see any problems.

BTW, durnurd you should familiarize yourself with the MySQL REPLACE statement.  It's kinda cool -- one thing that MySQL has that Microsoft SQL server doesn't (and I wish it did sometimes).

durnurd

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #5 on: 2006-02-16, 09:06:19 AM »
Well, yes, that would be helpful, wouldn't it?
Edward Dassmesser

bluemonkmn

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #6 on: 2006-02-17, 06:37:55 AM »
For anyone unclear on what happened and why:
The ratings system was not preventing multiple votes from one person on the same project.  We were starting to get hundreds of votes for single projects which only had a few downloads, so it was clear that there was some unfair abuse going on with vote stuffing.  I had no way of sorting out the fair votes from the abuse, so I thought that the fairest thing to do was reset the whole rating system, and then "import" only the votes that were attached to comments because those could be imported fairly.  The rating system now does a better job of preventing abuse, so now everyone is encouraged to go back and put their vote in on the games they've played.

durnurd

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #7 on: 2006-02-18, 02:24:21 PM »
Might I make one note (and possibly a suggestion):

The comments section is not meant to be used as a forum, so people should stop flaming each other back and forth by way of leaving comments in game reviews.  Any discussion of the game is welcome, why it's good, why it's bad, that's fine.  Discussion of the staff rating, however, is not something meant to be left in the comments section.  Perhaps a simple "I disagree with the staff rating for this game.  Here's why:" not "The staff rater is a stupid idiot and gives biased opinions.  Here's why:"  Notice the difference?  The comments are supposed to be commenting on what you think of the game, not what other people gave it.  So response to other comments should be minimal if anything at all, and response to the game itself should be the priority.

Now, my suggestion to BlueMonk is to remove all of the "comments" in the game reviews that don't respond to the game and the game alone for the given reasons.  Any other discussion about the staff rating or rater should be posted on the boards, where "discussion" belongs.
Edward Dassmesser

hebedaymun

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #8 on: 2006-02-18, 09:38:37 PM »
...Perhaps a simple "I disagree with the staff rating for this game.  Here's why:" not "The staff rater is a stupid idiot and gives biased opinions.  Here's why:"  Notice the difference?  The comments are supposed to be commenting on what you think of the game, not what other people gave it...

Okay, okay, DURNURD, you make a valid...point, although I can see you failed reading comprehension, because I stated in the comments that I took back all the, "Whaa!!  Your stupid because of your rating!!" talk.  Please read the posts before ranting on about something.  Jeez.  People these days *sigh*.

Anyway, I'll tell you what I thought of it, in an...appropraite manner.  here goes:

I disagree with the staff rating for this game.  Here's why:  I found the game to be boring.  I found the games gameplay to be no different from all the other gamedev. games, except most of the Guildhall games.  I thought the game was funny, yes, but in a crude and immature way.  The music was ripped, or it was just midi forms of songs, such as the 'cocomo' midi form (I think) Of a Beach Boy's song.  I don't see how the main character was detailed at all.  I DISAGREE.  Here's why:  It had about three frames and a few standing animations.  It is a lot better then all of the gamedev. games sprites--until you get to the Guilhall games.  The game was long, so I did like that, since most of the games on the listing are a pathetic 20 minutes, except a few gu....wait, nope they're just demos.  Another thing, the game seemed to crash quite a bit, too.  I don't know if it was my computer or whatever, but it crashed, and peeved me off.  Lastly, the graphics were basically ripped.  Billybob, I know you stated that you made some of those graphics, and I'd like to know what graphics you did make.  For now, however, it remains a negative.  You can have your... opinion, Bluemnkmn, I accept that.  I have just laid before you my opinion, and in case you decided for some reason to skim and scan my paragraph, I'll break it down for ya:

Summary:
+ Lengthy game
+ Crude humor
+ A story (unlike all the other gamedev. games)

- Crude humor
- Redundant gameplay
- Ripped Graphics
- Ripped Music
- Crashed often
- BIG download



Overall (all ratings are based on a scale of 1-10):

Graphics: 6.0
Gameplay: 6.0
Music: 7.0
Lasting Appeal: 9.0
Feeling: 7.0


Game's Rating: 7  which roughly translates into a 3.5 star rating.

So, there ya have it.  I layed down the law to ya all.  That's my opinion.  We all have our own, right?  riggghhtt.  Read it and accept.  I'm outta here.

*walks out shaking head*

durnurd

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #9 on: 2006-02-18, 10:13:52 PM »
Au contraire, Hebedaymun.  I scored perfectly on the reading comprehension section of the test.

But that's not really the point.  I know you retracted your statements, and that's a good thing, but I was simply making a point that discussion of the rating can be in the comments for a game, not discussion of the rater.  I appreciate that the criticism has moved to a more acceptable forum for discussion.

Oh, and while a 7 out of 10 may translate to a 3.5 out of 5, it is obvious that the rating is not out of 5.  If it were out of 10, then your rating and the official rating would actually be quite close to each other.
« Last Edit: 2006-02-18, 10:18:48 PM by durnurd »
Edward Dassmesser

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #10 on: 2006-02-19, 09:16:04 AM »
Well, Mr. Durnurd, I could care less what Bluemnkmn's rating scale is, buddy, that's my scale.  So leave it at that, okay?  Okay.  I would appreciate that much, sir.  Oh, you don't have to say you did good on "the test" just to make yourself feel better - it's quite pathetic.  Just leave it at that and go to class little school boy.

durnurd

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #11 on: 2006-02-20, 08:38:07 AM »
I was simply making an argument contradicting a couple of your statements.  You said you saw I failed reading comprehension, I didn't, so I corrected you.  YOU said on a STAR scale, a 7 translates to a 3.5.  Of course, you were assuming that it was out of 5, which it isn't.  So on a star scale out of 5, you're correct.  I was simply stating for those that may not understand that the star scale use HERE is not out of 5, but rather at least out of 6, so your translation to an out-of-five scale is somewhat useless.
Edward Dassmesser

hebedaymun

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #12 on: 2006-02-20, 10:19:46 AM »
Look, little man, you need to get off that high horse of yours and go grab your books.  Class is starting.  Besides, I NEVER, wait let me emphasize that NEVER said " And finally, let's see what my rating translates into when considering Bluemnkmn's rating of infinity".  I never stated that.  Once agian, this shows signs that you're not good at comprehending.  I simply wanted to translate MY rating of seven out of FIVE catagories into a star rating.  Is that really that hard to explain and/or understand?  I realize the youth of today is generally made up of morons, but I wouldn't have expected the game developers on these forums to be!

I'll say it agian, and after this, leave it as is.  This discussion ended when I gave my rating.  Here it is:

I scored the game out of five catagories.  I took the average of those five catagories and came out with a seven.  I decided " Hmmm...what would that be in stars?"  So, I translated it into my OWN star rating.

Well, if you can't understand that, then there is no hope for you.  Please leave the discussion as is and go to class or watch some star wars or whatever you nerds do nowadays. 

durnurd

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #13 on: 2006-02-20, 11:44:56 AM »
Apparently the discussion has not ended, as you have continued to respond.  And you never gave the top rating of your star system either.  One could easily figure out that it's out of 5, but even you must understand that one might be confused into thinking when you are saying it translates into a 3.5 star rating, you were using the star rating that you have been criticising all this time, saying that you would've given it a lower score than what bluemonk gave it on his star rating.  You NEVER said that it wasn't BlueMonk's star rating either, and since that's the one that's generally been in use, one would suspect that since you never specified otherwise, that's the one you were using.  So obviously this conversation was usefull even after the rating was given, so that people can understand that you're using a system of your own devising, not the one that's been in use for several years.

And while my class is starting soon, I never bring my book.  It's much to heavy.  I just use it to do the problems.
Edward Dassmesser

hebedaymun

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Re: Project Listing User Ratings
« Reply #14 on: 2006-02-20, 12:25:30 PM »
Okay, okay, calm down.  I wasn't the one who continued the discussion little boy, you we're the one who replied to my rating.  I'm just simply trying to end it now.  It's done, okay?  Good.  Gosh, the way people rant on and peform denial and damage control, makes me proud to be out of school and away from the corruptive peer pressure of the youth (which is clearly the problem with this... dur(nerd) guy ;)).

On a final note:  The one rating system that I remember that has been in use for several years is the five star system, not bluemnkmn's.. system ;).  Calm down and end the discussion already.  Jeez.

*walks out shaking head*