Author Topic: Come into the light!  (Read 6400 times)

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Come into the light!
« on: 2005-05-23, 01:19:43 AM »
I was thinking - I used to use gamedev alot for my game makin needs, but now I use game maker. I suggest that anyone reading this before the mods and admins conspire and delete it, at least check out


GAME MAKER
http://gamemaker.nl/index.html


I find it much better and easier to use, maybe that blue monk dude could get a couple of tips from MARK OVERMANS
Oh well, you can flame me heaps but I'm leaving now. cya!

bluemonkmn

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Come into the light!
« Reply #1 on: 2005-05-23, 05:55:40 AM »
Sure, that post is a little aggravating just in the assumptions it makes and the way its worded, but I would be a hypocrite to simply delete it.  I want people to use the Scrolling Game Development Kit because it fits their needs and style, not because I've tricked them into it or hidden the truth.  I think software should be able to stand on its own merits, and if there's a better tool for the job, a person should be free to switch.  What I find irritating is big software companies that rely primarily on their big name and established base to keep them alive.  And then the small companies that deliver much higher quality product are unfairly eliminated from consideration because of misinformation or mistrust.  That's what bothers me, not the prospect that someone might have software out there that others might find more useful than my own.  So I would invite people to try both pieces of software and honestly share the strengths and weaknesses they find among the choices with us to help people make more informed decisions.

I don't mean to say that The Scrolling Game Development Kit is a "much higher quality product" and that Game Maker is relying on its "big name and established base".  But I know of other real companies that do this, and this message just reminded me of this frustration.  So I just wanted to bring it up in the hope that people could realize this problem and try to evaluate all software fairly because when the better ideas get drowned out by older ideas just because they are more established, it holds back the whole industry.

Oh, and Mark has tried the Scrolling Game Development Kit (maybe 2 or 3 years ago) and I think he took a couple tips from it.  That's not to say that I couldn't take a couple tips from Game Maker as well, but that can work in both directions.

GM

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Come into the light!
« Reply #2 on: 2005-05-23, 05:03:49 PM »
Wow, that is so true. I think that it was a mistake to talk that way about gamedev. I was in a, ahhhh... mischevious mood at that time.  :-[
I think that you are right in saying that. I'm sorry and hope that you would forgive me. Everyone has the right to choose
Also, I agree completely about the whole thing that you brought up. There are copmpanies out there that squash out the higher quality competition but following bluemonks example, I wont name names.
Off the topic at the moment, but I like the new forum. I haven't been to the forum for a looong time and it looks and feels much better.

durnurd

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« Reply #3 on: 2005-05-24, 01:20:10 AM »
On the flip side, I've been using the Scrolling Game Development kit since its infancy, so I know a lot about how it works (the flip side being, I consider SGDK to be the "older" product).  Recently, I decided to download Game Maker, just to see what all the hoopla was about.  Frankly, I wasn't that impressed.  I know that apparently rather impressive games can be made with it, but it seemed somewhat counter-intuitive in the way it got things done.

But this is coming from somebody who's gotten used to the Scrolling Game Development kit over the past five years.

And of course, the Scrolling Game Development Kit offers all of its features free of charge.  That was the one main thing that made me decide not to attempt to create a full game with Game Maker.
Edward Dassmesser

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« Reply #4 on: 2005-05-24, 04:30:28 AM »
Hi all.
Personally, I think Gamedev is awesome considering it wasn't set a by a mega-software company. You rarley find good software avalible for free like that. Anyway, has anyone tried out that 3D game development studio? I forgot its name but its designed by some french company. Apparently they use it to create games like splinter-cell. You can get a free trial somwhere, I'll try to find the link.
-Aaron Snoswell

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« Reply #5 on: 2005-05-30, 12:32:27 PM »
I've been using SGDK for almost 3 years now. I stick with it because I don't have a "programmer's edge" but I can pump out a game by myself.

I think it's encouraging when the user can make it happen himself.

Some people don't realize that the advanced games are created by (drumroll, please) the advanced users. The kit won't make the game for you.

The development tool is just that... a tool. You'll end up using the one that works for you. I use SGDK.
"What's in a game?"  Juliet says to insult Romeo.

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« Reply #6 on: 2005-07-11, 10:18:03 PM »
There are prently of things I don't like about it and things I wish it had. Feature wise I might be happer with gamemaker but SGDK was easy to pickup and thats what I stuck with. You can really do some amazing things - quickly too. When I tried gamemaker I found too many things irritating about it.

To date I have yet to release a complete game - My fault not that of the kit. As much as I want to make a game myself I'm more interested in the graphical aspect of it. The closest I got was a year ago with an unreleased demo/unfinished demo. I still work on it(mostly gfx now) but I guess I'm lazy =] The more I learn art wise the more I am compelled to redo my old work instead of continuing it.

I've considered bringing up the idea of a joint project (working mainly on the graphics & some level design) but then I would be commited to seeing it through to a completed project. I have the time but often lack the energy. BlueMonkmn is free to request graphics from me though =]

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« Reply #7 on: 2005-07-11, 10:19:45 PM »
Oops, that last post was from me. I forgot to log in =]

Note: Making a complete game is hard. Making that a good game is even harder. This kit makes it possible for 1 person to still make a game in a world where huge teams are now the norm, but that person still has to be very dedicated. There are people that can do it all but they are few and I am not among them. The kit has let me dabble in game making but I may just not have what it takes! =] I enjoy it though so no plans on giving up any time soon.

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« Reply #8 on: 2005-10-01, 11:28:46 AM »
I find Gamemaker easier to use but in power they are pretty much the same. Neither of them do much for you

Except:

GM5 and 6 can make 3d games. Search for Gadget 3d for GM5 3d (unregistered). But I think theres a way of doing it with SDKG using tile layers.

VB Script is considerably more powerful than GML.

Game maker does next to nothing for you. Whereas in SDKG you can choose 360 direction, 8 way, 4 way, side scrolling, GM leaves EVERYTHING to you. A help and a hinderance.

GMs spriting is easier. Sorry but it is.  :)

SDKGs example games are more useful and more fun.

Its easier to get examples for GM because its more well known. Just.

These forums are nicer than the official GM forums, look at all the SNOBS!


I use GM more (I'm developing my first game with it)
but I really want to learn SDKG. I need to combine their power for a future project. It annoys me when one person says one is better than another.



Oh and GM is older, 1999, by 1 year.
I use Game maker a lot, SDKG seems more powerful though.

durnurd

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« Reply #9 on: 2005-10-01, 10:21:12 PM »
Combining the powers of SGDK and Game Maker, eh?  Sounds like a very interesting project you've got planned there.  As far as knowing even how to do that, I'm not sure....that....I do.  I know that SGDK is exposed as through COM, and I know that Game Maker has support for DLLs for support....but as far as combining the two...well, I just don't see the point, really.  The only reason you would use the exposition of SGDK through COM without actually just using SGDK itself is for its engine support, which Game Maker already... is.  It is an engine.

That being said, the combined powers of the two programs may very well be something to behold if done correctly.  I just don't know what that entails.

Also, many many examples do exist for SGDK, they're just not very easy to access.  There are the tutorials and the sample scripts in the documentation section, the games in the gamedevprj section, and the sample projects (perhaps both the best samples, and the hardest to find) in the ftp directory.

And alas, making 3D games in SGDK is not, as such, really possible.  Parallax Scrolling is, of course, possible, which gives some semblance of some things being closer and others being farther away, but nothing so bold as an actual 3D view of any object.  Of course, you must realize that Game Maker, as it is thus named, must have support to be able to create a much broader genre of games than SGDK, the "Scrolling Game Development Kit".  It was only meant for making one thing:  Scrolling games.  Dare I say, scrolling platformer run-and-jump games such as BlueMonk's prior project(s), TechnoVenture.  The fact that it can be used to make other games such as top-down or 3/4 parallax view games is only a bonus, an extra feature.

Unfortunately, due to this fact, people then begin to compare it then to other "general" game construction kits such as Game Maker, which were designed with more types of games in mind during the design phase.  Or people may compare it to RPG Maker XP which, as far as RPG Makers go, is waaay better than SGDK as far as ease of use for making RPGs.  However, try using it to make a side-scroller some time.  It goes without saying that it's not easy.  And in the end, it's just not as powerful when SGDK is combined with the power of VBScript.

And so dare I say that yes, Game Maker may very well be better in its own respect, but I've found SGDK to be easier to use, in the end, for making side-scrolling platformer games.

Woah, I just had a really weird idea.  Get a tileset of text, and create an "ascii" game using the Scrolling Game Development Kit, and then somewhere during the course of the game, the letters start doing weird things like melting, or dancing around, or morph into real enemies or something.  That would be really cool :). Don't know why I just thought of that though.

Oh, and  the creation of SGDK began before the creation of Game Maker, which began in 1999.  It was released later the same year.  SGDK, on the other hand, started in 1998 and the first open Beta was released in 2000.  And I can't wait for SGDK 2, oh baby, baby, which should be a major boost in popularity for SGDK and should get a bit of attention.
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« Reply #10 on: 2005-10-01, 10:36:14 PM »
Oh, and one more thing.

SGDK: Open source.  Absolutely free to change the code of the engine itself, and you are absolutely free to use it as you wish (within the constraints of the GPL) and even release your own games absolutely free with no logo shown during the game (and you can even easily get rid of the SGDK splash screen now that BMDXCtls is also open-source)

GameDev (Edit: I mean Game Maker):  Free to try.  Many additional features locked without registration, which costs $20.  Games created before registration have a GameMaker logo that cannot be removed.  Closed-source.
Edward Dassmesser

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« Reply #11 on: 2005-10-02, 06:22:32 AM »
Of course durnurd meant to say "Game Maker" not "GameDev" when describing the shareware fees that Game Maker now charges.

durnurd

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« Reply #12 on: 2005-10-02, 02:25:54 PM »
:o Oops  :P
Edward Dassmesser

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« Reply #13 on: 2005-10-03, 09:36:05 AM »
Its actually very simple to combine SDKG and Gamemaker, a little code command named "execute_program"

It would take me longer to make certain sections in either one of them, Game maker is easier in some respects easier and the same to SDKG.

And besides that, my final freeware project is a Game creation tool that will combine the power of many tools and languages.

And no, Game Maker is NOT an engine, you can use the same engine for the same games or make one from scrap. The same to SDKG, probably, I don't know enough about it yet.
I use Game maker a lot, SDKG seems more powerful though.

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« Reply #14 on: 2005-10-03, 10:55:22 AM »
I did not mean to imply that Game Maker was only an engine, nor SGDK, but I had to assume that that was what you would be using the two for when combined.
Edward Dassmesser