Author Topic: Visual Basic 6 Professional  (Read 17285 times)

sam

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Visual Basic 6 Professional
« on: 2006-05-19, 07:30:35 PM »
Hey, sorry for the mass amount of new topics. I know SGDK was made with Visual Basic 6. And a couple of weeks ago I took a small one-day "mini-enrichment" course about it. I made a Tic-Tac-Toe and Number Guessing game. I've been recently looking around for it and have found out that it is kind of hard to buy. I found a couple on eBay but it's pretty scarce. To buy it from Microsoft I'm pretty sure the only way is to buy it with Visual Studio which costs about $1000 CDN. Which brings me to my question, where did you (bluemonk/anyone who has it) buy it?

durnurd

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #1 on: 2006-05-20, 07:42:08 AM »
Well, I got my copy from BlueMonk.  The newest version of Visual Studio is .Net, which is not 6.0.  So if you want to buy one, make sure it's the right one.  It seems that eBay has several copies of 6.0.

(Cheapest one)
http://cgi.ebay.com/MICROSOFT-VISUAL-BASIC-6-0-PROFESSIONAL-AE-EDITION_W0QQitemZ7243172890QQcategoryZ99330QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Edward Dassmesser

bluemonkmn

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #2 on: 2006-05-20, 07:52:26 AM »
I actually paid about what you said for it (~$500 US) because I got it as part of Visual Studio 6, and I was serious enough about programming that I knew it would be worthwhile to me (and I had used it extensively at work too).  But if you happen to know any Microsoft employees, you might be able to work out a deal with them.  They frequently will buy software for friends at a great discount (on the order of 10% of the list price).  I eventually also ended up with an extra copy at work, which I was able to give away because we didn't need it there any more, so if you happen to know any computer programmers, I suppose there's also a small chance they might have an extra one around that you could use.

Another option is to get Visual Basic 6.0 Learning Edition, which is significantly cheaper than Visual Studio 6.0 Professional.  I believe even a program as complex as GameDev could compile and run with the Learning Edition.  If you're not specifically interested in working with GameDev 1.x source code, you might also consider the latest free version of Visual Studio available from Microsoft: Visual Studio 2005 Express http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

Yay for free downloads :)

sam

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #3 on: 2006-05-20, 11:14:20 AM »
Quote
If you're not specifically interested in working with GameDev 1.x source code, you might also consider the latest free version of Visual Studio available from Microsoft: Visual Studio 2005 Express http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

Yay for free downloads

Yah, I've looked at that. I'm on dial-up and it's 60 MB, which takes approx. 6 hours. And, I've read some reviews on that version that say that it is pretty basic and simple so I'm not interested in that version.

I don't know any Microsoft employees, (well, atleast I don't think so). Anyways ,my birthday is coming up and VB6 is what I'm hopefully getting (I'm trying to lead my parents in the right direction  :) ).

In reply to Durnurd's post,
I know but it's also really expensive. I'm pretty sure the one I was using at Trent (where I was taking the course) was VB6, so that's the one I want.

Dr Obvious

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #4 on: 2006-05-20, 06:28:28 PM »
If you want to just write game dev scripts, you don't really need VB to do that.  If you think you want to get into programming, there's better things to learn than VB.  If you want to shell out money, try buying Microsoft C++, you'll save yourself about $800 dollars and that's just if you want to spend money on it.  If you want something completely free, download something like Textpad and just learn Java (though C++ is better for game development).  Not to knock Game Dev or people that actually use VB for things outside of prototyping, but VB isn't used for much outside of making prototypes.  If you want to make a quick good looking app, VB isn't too bad.  If you want to actually program something, learn C++ and it will take you much further.

Assuming your profile is right, you have a lot of time to learn.  You don't have to jump right in and buy the most expensive software right away.  Play around with the free stuff or at least the cheaper things before you go out and buy visual studio and learn on something a little better than VB.  If you think you're serious about getting into game development as a programmer, VB will get you absolutely nowhere, it's not even that great of a learning tool.
« Last Edit: 2006-05-20, 06:34:15 PM by Dr Obvious »

durnurd

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #5 on: 2006-05-20, 07:21:42 PM »
You don't have to buy Microsoft C++, of course.  You could just get a free C++ compiler if you were going to start doing something like that.  I myself have gotten into Java, which is great in my opinion.  Not for anything that's a critical system of course, but for normal things, it's wonderfully platform-independant.
Edward Dassmesser

sam

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #6 on: 2006-05-20, 07:51:31 PM »
I am not just interested in VB for GameDev, but for making apps.

So far I only know scripts for web development (HTML, CSS, Javascript). So I would like to get into some programming scripts. I have looked at a few C++ tutorials before and it seems fairly complicated, it seems extremely different from what I'm familiar with. So I don't know, I'm interested in VB6 because it has a nice environment and (in my opinion) has everything, but then again there's probably tons more things out there it could have. I remember you (Durnurd) have made (or atleast started) some text-adventure engine. What did you use to write that? As far as Java goes, I've never evn downloaded it to run Java Applets on the internet before. So is C++ the main script for creating professional programs? What are programs like WordPad and PhotoShop written in. Once I figure some of this out I would like to make a webpage creator, for COMPLETE beginners.


durnurd

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #7 on: 2006-05-20, 08:01:30 PM »
Most programs are written in the C++ Programming Language these days, and have been ever since it existed.  Before that, a lot of it was just C.  My Text Adventure engine was written in Java.  There are other programming languages out there that big programs are made with, but mostly that's just bitter old people not wanting to get with the program, no pun intended.

Also, things may be moving to C#, now that that is gaining momentum.  It's basically combines the power of C++ and the ease of use of Java (and removes the native cross-platform ability I think).  That might be something to look into instead of C++.
Edward Dassmesser

Dr Obvious

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #8 on: 2006-05-20, 08:51:39 PM »
Yup, C++ is the most widely used and can be free, I just prefer Visual Studio and that's what I would recocmend if you're absolutely set on spending money.  Java is good, but terrible for game development, even modile games.  It's a great language to learn, it's easy, and the API is great, but it's just too slow for game development.

Once again, don't start with VB, especially VB 6, as VB6 and VB .NET are actually a little bit different.  Any programming language looks difficult when you first look at it, especially when you're first starting out.  Just find a good book (any O'Reilly book is great) and learn it.  As I said earlier, you're 12 so you have a lot of time to learn these things.  Don't expect to start C++ tomorrow and make a game next week, it's going to take a while to learn and get better at it.  Even using VB just for apps isn't the greatest idea. 

I'm not sure what you mean by apps, but VB just isn't what you want to use.  If it's just casualy apps, then you probably don't want to waste a grand on those.  If you actually want to learn how to program, VB will get you nowhere.  You'll learn about some if then statements, maybe some while, but you won't get much further than anything else just simple like that.  Note that I actually know more FORTRAN programmers than VB programmers.  I'm not saying VB is a bad thing to know, just don't use it to learn programming.

sam

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #9 on: 2006-05-20, 10:05:28 PM »
Ok, I've been looking at C# tutorials for the last 2 hours. So many "hello world" tutorials....Anyways, I've been writing some of the code and learning what it does. I can't figure out how to compile it though;I'm gonna need a detailed explanation here... After I open up Command Prompt what do I do? Do I have to go open up the .net framework folder in another window, then type csc C:\file.cs in command prompt. That's pretty much what I'm getting out of all these tutorials but it doesn't work.

One more thing: Is C++ or C# harder to learn? Or are they both the same pretty much?

Dr Obvious

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #10 on: 2006-05-20, 10:26:12 PM »
Just go with C++.  C# is nice and all...but C++ will be better to learn.

sam

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #11 on: 2006-05-21, 07:17:49 AM »
Ok, then what do you use to compile C++?

durnurd

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #12 on: 2006-05-21, 07:26:53 AM »
Just go with C++.  C# is nice and all...but C++ will be better to learn.

I have to disagree with that.  C# is just plain easier to program in when it comes right down to it.  For those not faint of heart, perhaps, C++ could be more powerful if you're trying to squeeze every last ounce of performance out, but one of my main gripes in C++ is pointers and dereferencing all gets very confusing, especially when overloading causes the * operator to have like seven different functions.  C# tries to make understanding pointers not so necessary, and in the end (I think) it's easier to program with.

Ok, then what do you use to compile C++?

To compile C++, if you're set on it, you can just download a C++ compiler such as Turbo C++ (First one that came to mind.  Try searching for Free C++ Compiler Download on Google to find a crapload more).  Do you have the latest version of Microsoft .NET 2.0 installed on your computer, BTW?  If not, that might be why your C# isn't compiling.  Also, the link BlueMonk gave earlier leads to a place where you can download the "light" Microsoft C# and C++ (and VB) Integrated Development Environment (IDE) and compiler for free.  I downloaded the VB one and it looks pretty good to me.  I don't know what's missing yet, but I haven't looked really hard (and GameDev 1.X doesn't upgrade to VB 2005).  I'd suggest trying one of those two (Microsoft C# or C++ .NET IDE).
Edward Dassmesser

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Programming languages
« Reply #13 on: 2006-05-21, 08:15:09 AM »
Oh, so much discussion, where to begin my response...

I think the VB is getting a bit of an unfair rap here.  It's not the best language, but I think it comes off sounding worse in this thread than it really is.  It is in fact used in a lot of mainstream major production software (where I work for instance).  Both VB6 and VB .NET are used for serious production applications.  It may not be the best for games (especially if you don't thoroughly understand what you're doing), but as GameDev 1.x proves, you can not only make games, but real-time scrolling game engines with reasonable performance in VB6 if you do it right.  Now in the sense that you really have to know what you're doing to get the best performance out of VB6, I would agree with Dr Obvious that you might want to learn a lower-level language than VB if you plan to be making serious games where you need the best performance.  But I'm not sure how important that is right now.  And I suspect you can eventually learn similar lessons using more enjoyable languages than C++. 

C++ has been the mainstream language for serious development organizations (yes, we use C++ where I work too, not just VB) for a long time.  But I'm really starting to believe that .NET provides us with a new generation/layer of languages that offers so much more power and ease of use (while limiting the loss of performance, understanding and control over the lower levels) that the trade-offs may finally balance in favor of these new languages over C++ for the majority of applications.  I won't jump into a detailed explanation of each aspect of these trade-offs just now, but suffice it to say that I have programmed extensively in VB3-6, VB.NET, C, C++ and C#, and based on my experience and training in .NET, I think .NET-based languages may be good not only for improved overall productivity, but improved learning curves as well.  Now that VB .NET and C# are truly object oriented languages, they can offer a much cleaner representation of real object oriented programming concepts, and without the pitfalls of C++ unmanaged pointers.

If you have the stomach for it, certainly go for C++, and you will probably be forced to understand how programming and compilers work at a pretty low (and useful) level.  But I don't think it's necessary any more to start at that level if you're not prepared for the complexity involved.  You can still learn the same performace-enhancing lessons using newer languages now that they don't hide quite so many details from you as VB6 did.

On to the next topic: Visual Basic 2005 Express... where are you reading that this environment is not good for serious development?  I must admit that I don't know much about the express editions.  But I can't imagine how they would have limited it so as to be un-useful even for applications like SGDK 2.  I suspect that SGDK2 would compile under the express editions of Visual Studio.  Perhaps now that durnurd is staying at my house for a summer internship we can both take a look.  Would you be interested in an Express edition if it turns out to be reasonably powerful after all?

And finally, it sounds like you are trying to program in C# without having Visual Studio.  Indeed that is painful.  Surely Visual C# 2005 Express or Visual Basic 2005 Express could make your life significantly easier there so you don't have to spend hours finding documentation  on every little command every time you want to do something new, and finding out how to compile all the different kinds of pieces without Visual Studio.  I wrote a batch file to compile SGDK2 without Visual Studio, and I can tell you it's not going to be much fun for a newcomer... not nearly as much fun as using the IDE to handle the gritty details :).

Maybe I sound bad for recommending skipping over some of the nitty gritty, thereby posing a risk that you'll never learn how things operate at a lower level.  But I think programming should be fun, and you should get to see some of the cool things you can do in these environments right away, and then go back and learn the details of the environment you're most interested in.  If you get bogged down in the details before you even get to anything interesting, another risk poses itself: the risk that you'll give up on a powerful and interesting language because it looks more complicated than it needs to be.  In that sense, you might even benefit from trying Visual C++ 2005 Express because I suspect the new environment for that will be pretty helpful too.

OK, this message is long enough :)

sam

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Re: Visual Basic 6 Professional
« Reply #14 on: 2006-05-21, 10:20:22 AM »
Ok, I have been looking at C++ and it does seem significantly harder than C#.

Quote
Do you have the latest version of Microsoft .NET 2.0 installed on your computer, BTW?  If not, that might be why your C# isn't compiling
No I don't think I do. Can I download it?
Maybe I'll go check out the express editions of Visual C# or whatever it's called.

Quote
On to the next topic: Visual Basic 2005 Express... where are you reading that this environment is not good for serious development?
I was looking to buy it on Amazon before I knew it was free. I saw some reviews there about it. If it did turn out to be powerful I would probably take another look.

Thanks for all the responses.